[Probable cause known] Plane Crash Amsterdam airport 737-800Turkish Airlines

[Anastasios]

I was just in my car from A'dam airport to my home and I saw the wreckage of the airplane.

My god, it REALLY is close to my house.
And it is so strange to actually see a plane wreckage in real life.

@Tracker801:
feel free to say what you want in this thread, but it is about these kind of phrases:-
3 Pilots.... nah, the Captain, the CP and one on the jumpseat..... 737s do not carry 3 pilots.... -
I'm annoyed about.

If you don't know the exact information, don't talk about it like you do know it.

Anastasios.

[relichd]

Anastasios wrote:
If you don't know the exact information, don't talk about it like you do know it.

Nobody's perfect and it happens from time to time that people talk things they don't fully understand. Even the best of the best do that. Tollerance
to all should be in place... Granted, people from the business might be more sensitive to this, but again - tollerance and kindness should be the way...

The day we loose the freedom to talk our minds, we loose our lives and this forum its only purpose...

David



Post Edited ( 02-26-09 21:00 )

[SkyAirWorld]

You guys are all aware its different oprating standards in different places?

Its only 2 in Australia on 800's

and its also most company SOP's to only have 2

And also tracker is correct, in a way...

There were only 2 pilots flying this turkish airliner, the 3rd was actually a pilot in training. (so technically he is a pilot, but also... no he was
not a pilot)


3 is our SOP for pilots in training, however all other times.

... 2


Enough drift, back on topic, being nice anything bad to say etc, PM it to the person(s) involved

[relichd]

Morning news as in Dublin's Herald AM: the most probable cause = engine (s) failure, based on "guesses" of the investigators made of the witness'
stories. Before the crash , aircraft sent for repairs of faulty master alarm light on Monday. Made 8 flights since. Had a routine maintenace in Oct 08.

David

[Anastasios]

Rumour now is that it is possible that the pilot in training was flying the plane on approach.
He came below glideslope and captain (instructor) instructed a go-around.
For some reason the pilot flying pulled up the airplane, but did not set go-around thrust.
Full thrust was given but too late and the plane stalled and crashed.

Ofcourse, this is another speculation (from pilots) which might be completely false.


Another question now is why there were no slides.

The front doors were opened, but slides did not inflate. In fact, on photo's it is visible that the slide compartments are completely closed.
This would mean that someone actually disarmed the slides before opening (which can only be done from the inside) or the slides were
never armed at all.
Another possible cause might be that the slidebars got pulled out of the brackets on impact, which cause a disarming of the slide.

Anastasios.

[airmiles]

A thought which may have no relevance at all, but of the unfortunate fatalaties 3 have been confirmed as cockpit crew, leaving a further 6
of these 2 were boeing staff. Food for thought perhaps.

Pedro

[relichd]

Another rumour has it that traffic controllers did not keep the minimum recommended time distance between a b757 and the b737, putting THY plane into
difficult wind conditions caused by the heavy aircraft's engines... But these are the allegations put in place by Turkish airline pilots organisation
(TALPA).

On the other hand, Turkish civil aviation organisation is in a fight with Turkish airlines management, who are supposedly not paying enough attention
to technical maintenance of the planes...

As always, this accident would seem to me as a bad combination of lack of maintenance and human error either in the cockpit or ATC, maybe both. Either
way, it is displeasing when finance is the issue where safety is due...

[Anastasios]

About the controller issue.

As far as I know, the distance between the two airplanes was about 3 minutes which should be sufficient.
Dutch ATC is well trained and for me this situation is not likely to be true.

But ofcourse, anything could've gone wrong!.

Anastasios.

[relichd]

Latest update: According to preliminary cockpit and flight data recorder check, it is a faulty altimeter that caused the crash. The plane was
approaching Schiphol airport while put on autopilot. Wrong altitude reading send by altimeter to autopilot, the autopilot -based on a faulty
presumption that the aircraft already landed- cut off the fuel pumps thus reducing engines' thrust at once...

This b737 had two altimeter problems before.

The producer of the aircraft (Boeing) warned all owners of this type that there are problems (like that causing crash) reported by several airlines...

Another reason not to land on autopilot, guys!

[Anastasios]

I just read the update.

Dutch website says:

At an altitude of 1950 feet the left altimeter indicated an altitude of -8 feet.
The autopilot responded by setting thrust to N1 for landing.
All three pilots did not notice this.

At an altitude of 450 feet the plane was about to stall and the crew tried to recover by applying full power. Unfortunately is was too late to
recover.

The investigators also concluded that the pilots probably did nót crashlanded the plane on purpose in the greenland. Seen the
circumstances there was no time or possibillty to choose a landing spot.

Anastasios.

[DSW334]

What I don't get is that the crew did not notice the problem within the 100 seconds it took the plane to decent from 1950ft to 450ft. If I
remember correctly visibility was poor with a cloud base at 700ft. They won't be looking outside all the time as there wasn't much to see.
So you would expect the Captain to notice the speed reduction. Especially as he was the PNF.

What was it that kept them occupied to not notice the problem? Wouldn't they have a clean cockpit below 10,000ft, even if it was a training
flight? Anybody that can share his opinion on this?

[Anastasios]

It is still not clear for me if the pilot in training was flying or not.

Maybe they were still explaining something or talking about 'what if' situations.

I think the cause now is technical and crew error.

Anastasios.

[SkyAirWorld]

From what I've herd "through the grape vine"

Its all Pilot error, and the PIC could potentially (even if he wasnt flying) be facing potential charges if things take a turn........


Purly second hand news there though

[DBE]

SkyAirWorld wrote:
...and the PIC could potentially (even if he wasnt flying) be facing potential charges if things take a turn........

I somehow doubt that will ever happen...

[jonathan3141]

A couple of things

An apology to Tracker for my completely over the top remarks previously.

With respect to this crash, the debate on a pilots forum- those blaming software etc for being unnecessarily
causal to the accident, and others
saying that the whole thing was lack of flying skills - ie the fact that there was an instrument failure was no reason
for the plane to crash. Which I
agree with it, albeit with the caveat that even the best of us will screw up occasionally. Given what is currently
known, I hope that any law suits
against Boeing fails.