[Probable cause known] Plane Crash Amsterdam airport 737-800Turkish Airlines

[Anastasios]

A 737-800 crash landed short of the runway in Amsterdam.

Probably some passengers died.

This is just a few nm from my house.

Anastasios.

Dutch website says:

At an altitude of 1950 feet the left altimeter indicated an altitude of -8 feet.
The autopilot responded by setting thrust to N1 for landing.
All three pilots did not notice this.

At an altitude of 450 feet the plane was about to stall and the crew tried to recover by applying full power. Unfortunately is was too late to
recover.

The investigators also concluded that the pilots probably did nót crashlanded the plane on purpose in the greenland. Seen the
circumstances there was no time or possibillty to choose a landing spot.



Post Edited ( 03-04-09 20:13 )

[DSW334]

9 confirmed dead. 25 heavily wounded according to the press conference.

[Anastasios]

There were 3 pilots in the cockpit and all 3 probably died.

Anastasios.

[Powerke]

It was a 737-800 from Turkish Airlines.

Crashed about 2 km in front of the landingstrip.
The reasons why the plane crashlanded is yet unknown.

[djjoost]

there are speculations about the plane ran out of fuel (no fire after crash and it stalled before/during landing).
But...with 3 pilots, this must have been seen by one of them....or not? Strange thing if that was the cause.

We have to wait what investigators say about this.
But 9 dead people...that's sad.

[Tracker801]

A very short listing of minor facts, on a personal note:
- 3 Pilots.... nah, the Captain, the CP and one on the jumpseat..... 737s do not carry 3 pilots....
- Ran out of fuel? No way, expected fuel starvation is mentioned to CTR at the slightest indication, extended warrants a Pan, near drained Mayday.
No indicationS THUS far from any source that indicates any of such cases.
- The 737NG (to which the 738G belongs) series have an automated crash fuel shutdown system by shutvalves in their main lines
- Aircraft was at full landing config when it hit
- Witnesses report A/C struck tail first then burried its nose
- Engines found several feet further from wreckage

Piecing together eyewitness stories, the present story is this:
- Pilot Flying disengaged AT on final, keeping the AP following the ILS
- Due to shifting winds, or any other factor, the aircraft slowed down causing the aircraft to pitch up to regain the ILS
- Due to the pitching, speed dropped even further
- Pilots did not notice the decrease in speed until AP lowered the nose to gain speed
- AP disengaged
- Pilots go full power and pull up hard, close to the ground
- Tail strikes and nearly breaks off due to impact forces
- Due to the tail strike, A/C pitches down fast
- Nose hits
- Fuselage hits, engines seperate on breakpins, nose and tail sections break off due to strain
- Engines have mass and speed to tumble several feet further

Still,
THIS IS ONLY A VERY EARLY BASE OF THOUGHT..... WE WILL NOT BE SURE UNTIL FURTHER INFO IS RELEASED OR THE OFFICIAL REPORT IS FILED!!!!

As soon as I learn more backgrounds I will try to piece more together.
For now, let us refrain from discussions about what happened and wait for things to develop. It is hard enough as it is for all those involved

[EDIT] made some text bold so people may not need glasses to read them words



Post Edited ( 02-26-09 16:49 )

[Anastasios]

Tracker,

I cannot agree with your post, it almost makes me angry.
I think yóu are the one speculating way too much about the accident.
You are creating a scenario which might be completely illogical.

A 737 cán fly with 3 pilots. It is not that strange. Sometimes on long flights or night flight because of workload (which probably is not the
case now), maybe a check flight for one of the pilots or maybe a training flight.
It is not that rare to fly a 737 with 3 pilots.

Fuel starvation really is possible and again, is not that strange.

What would be strange, if the 737 would approach runway 18R in fine weather conditions (weather was not great, but not a problem for
landing), with winds light to moderate and for no reason drop out of the sky because and make a tailstrike in the greenland.

Experts say it looks like a controlled landing.
Let them handle it please.

Anastasios.

[jonathan3141]

Tracker - almost unbeliveable!! Are you really a forum moderator????

You provide detailed speculation including accusation of pilot error, concluding by saying "For now, let us refrain from discussions about what
happened and wait for things to develop. It is hard enough as it is for all those involved"

Take your own advice...

[Steven Tan]

Anastasios, jonathat3141 calm down it was just a guess. Control yourselves. i agree with tracker that it couldn't have been fuel starvation.
They would have noticed unless there was a gauge maufunction.

[Joeflyer]

Personally, I think we all should refrain from discussing any new aircraft accidents. See what happens when speculation runs amok?
Tempers flare over mere speculation. Sage words from the incomparable Rodney King, "Can't we just all get along??"

[Powerke]

I know why that plane crashed .......coz it stopped flying.

Now besides my crazyness.....the investigastion is in full swing now ...the flight data recorders are being analized.
And we should be glad that so many people survided the crash .....thats pretty intense stuff.
Planes have a habit of catching fire or change in to the wold biggest jigsaw puzzle after a crash landing like that.

The correct reasons why that plane crashed will be made public after the investigation is over.
But its a free world ....and if Tracker wants to share his ideas with us this his right.^
All he did was list the information he gathered to this point.
And he does have a point about the fuel issues...

Speculate all you want...i personally will wait for the "official" results


My condoleances go out to all people that did loose a relative or friend in that crash.



Post Edited ( 02-26-09 13:21 )

[DSW334]

Personally I don't see why there can't be any speculation. We speculate everyday. In fact, a lot of police investigations (and perhaps also
airline crash investigations) are solved by making speculations and looking if the evidence fits in. As long as you keep it plausible and
not unrealistic.

BY reading the comments above from Tracker and DJJoost they both seemed plausible to me at first. Now from absorbing all available
info on the net, tv and radio it seems that the ran out of fuel speculation seems to be rejected as several eye witnesses are reporting that
the planes engines were producing noise and therefore indicating that there was some sort of thrust available. Also you would expect
that in a low fuel situation they would have request 18C for landing as 18R is a long taxi to the stands and that they would have indicated
some sort of problem to ATC. So a lack of fuel does not seem the case. It could off course be a similar situation as to the BA777 that has
a fuel starvation due to icing.

The one thing that struck me the most on this particular crash is the rate of impact vs. the fact that so many people survived. Some
people are writing that the forces during the impact has most likely exceeded 9G's. I'm by no mean a physics guy, but to me it seems that
the design of the airframe therefore did its work. Can anyone comment on how many G's a normal human being can normally handle
without passing out (or worse)?

[relichd]

jonathan3141 wrote:
It is hard enough as it is for all those involved"

Those involved are not probably reading this forum now, right? I don't see a reason why a group of aviation enthusiasts couldn't speculate? As long as
we keep it within some acceptable limits, I guess it's perfectly ok and only natural...

Of course, every plane crash is a tragedy and any public/media speculation is causing more pain to those who were involved. But we are a
specific community of people. And in some way I really do believe that speculations as such can help...

One example so that everybody understands that I am not saying detectives are incapable of doing their jobs! On the contrary, I hold them all in
highest esteem for the knowledge they need to posses and the patience I totally lack >> I have a friend. He's a professional programmer. Once, he
presented his new short program (in the time of Turbo Pascal ) and said:"I still can't make it work at 100%" I am not very good at
programming, but after he explained the problem, the solution came to my mind very quickly. And it really helped! That said, it's only an idea of
someone else (even not a professional) that can make you think different... <<

Witness' stories and media speculations (however unpleasant they might be to those involved) are exactly that kind of speculations that very often
raise doubts and force investigators to look into it. I know, I know - flight recorders will give the full detail after all... But why not to talk?
Why not to try to understand? Why not to learn?

Anyway... Just a though, guys. Just a thought....

[Joeflyer]

It would be acceptable if people kept it that way

[Tracker801]

I will not post anything in this thread again. I am sorry Gentlemen, it's your thread and I will just monitor.
Now if you would excuse me, I have some important things to do at EHAM.



Post Edited ( 02-26-09 16:51 )