Manual Landing

[jboweruk]

Lol I know where you're comin' from. First ride in an airliner I took was a 747 to an Airshow here in the UK. When we took off to come
back home the pilots didn't use reduced thrust at all so it was a full throttle take-off. We got pinned right back, I swear he must of pitched
up so we were climbing out around 4k per minute. As to the landings well, you never knew we touched the ground they were that smooth.
I fell for the 744 after that.

[Andreas Schmitz-Schunken]

Reminds me to something funny....

In 2003 we was on final in a Thai 747-400 to VTBD (Bangkok Don Muang)

I think we was maybe 500-800 feet agl and it was very bumpy with rainsqualls...

Suddenly the turbines rev up to maxthrust, plane pitchs up, gear go in again... GO Around....

In the plane everybody was silent, well not everybody....

Beause I scream : Wohhooo cool! cool! Missed Aproach! We go around.....

After this 300 pairs of eyes look at me .... and I can read in their eyes: KILL HIM! KILL HIM!

Greets!

Andreas





Post Edited ( 06-13-05 19:43 )

[Big Vern]

ISTR taking off from EWR on a Continental DC10 while in the States a few years ago (1989 actually). Not only was the climb out steep
and hot, it was accompanied by some fairly severe banking.

Not really experienced anything like it on flights since, though I do recall a GA at LHR on a BA 747 accompanied by the "cool"
announcement from the cockpit, "Er ladies and gentlemen looks like we're going to circle and have another go at this..."

Worst turbulence was on a Dan Air 737 coming back to LGW from my honeymoon in Tenerife in 1987. That's the only time I've really been
anxious on a plane and actually seen the flight attendants look worried.

[jboweruk]

Dan Air? Boy Big vern you must be nearly as old as me.....

[Big Vern]

jboweruk wrote:
Dan Air? Boy Big vern you must be nearly as old as me.....

18/07/61 (That's 1961 not 1861 before anyone passes some cheeky comments!).

[pegase]

Captain Vern and Andreas posts remind me a gag which happend in 1997 on my way back from Stuttgart to Paris. Our Lufrhansa's 737 was just starting
to rumble on the runway when a mobile phone went ringing at a few seats from mine. almost immediately a woman blushed like a lobster and turned
frantically her hands in he bag to switch the phone out . But at the same time the plane stopped the take off and ttook a taxyway to come back
on the tarmac where it stopped The captain came then in the cabbin, itheis plane was transformed int o a classroom of bad pupils when the
head-master comes in to stop a mess.. The Captain began by a speech about all the dangers of the "handies" and why it is mandatory to switch them
off, why it is very bad not to do so and then... HWO WAS IT !!??? walking back and forh in the aisle looking with dark eyes this or that
part of the passengers. In the big silence, I heard besdide a sort of "pff...pfff....pff.." and see a guy fighting all his best to refrain laughing.
It was contagious to the neighbours and then the others neighbours... some seconds later 130 Ladies and Gentlemens where laughing like crazy in this
plane. ...
Then the captain understood wisely that he would not get anything more of the bunch of a$$holes he had as passengers and went back in the cockpit
leaving us under the stern look of the (beautyfull) walkirye we had as flight attendent .
Some minuts after we got a clearance. and about 1 hour later in CDG, some of us where stil dead ROTFL

Question : I am surprised that, as the mobile phones can be dangerous that the passengers are not asked when boarding in the plane to stop them.
Instead of this, there is a global call when the plane is already taxying and often the mobiles out off ranges in the bottom off the top
cases ... the fun is to watch then the number off people (sometime like me) who suddenly jerk and swing on their chair to check those f... phones

[jboweruk]

one out of two ain't bad. You got 4 years on me.

[Wisborg]

pegase wrote:
Question : I am surprised that, as the mobile phones can be dangerous that the passengers are not asked when boarding in the plane to stop them.

I think I've heard that more and more airliners don't consider cell phones a danger any longer. This includes Lufthansa, but the German law forces
them to keep them from allowing phone calls during flight (correct me if I'm wrong). So that might be one reason, there isn't too much effort taken in
this respect.

/ Jesper

[Big Vern]

As a layman (and I stand to be corrected) from our flight sim experience the same avionics and navaids are in use during landing and
take off as cruise flight, yet all use of portable electronics is banned during landing/take off. I suspect that has more to do with getting
people's attention if there is an emergency (i.e. not having to tap people wearing headphones etc) than a real risk of electronic
interference.

Regards to stowing electronics, I was under the impression you can no longer put electrical items in checked baggage, only hand
baggage. (Though your nail clippers have to go in the hold -even though the cord from your personal stereo or sharpened CD could be
just as lethal).

[Andreas Schmitz-Schunken]

Hello!

Its the same thing with mobile GPS receivers. Some Airlines allow to turn them on in fly, some Airlines forbid it (like Emirates). Maybe
they do not want the passengers have a clue where they be but the pilot is still lost....


Cheers!

Andreas

[pegase]

The GPS, as far as I know, is only a reciever, then should not cause trouble. May be the digital electronic can send interferences
(remember the good old time of the ZX81 and other personal computers in unshielded housing when working near a SW radio...

I think that as Andreas think, it is rather because they don't want to be bothered with questions about the path followed during the flight or
also any security strategic reasons. Here (also in the good old times) of cold ware, the russian pilots where specialists to "get lost"
always above some strategic places.

About the cell phones, i heared everything. During a short while, The former Air Inter placed phones for the passengers on the back seat,
so expensive that the credit card almost melted in these machines; so, it was assumed that banning the cell phones was a simple
monopoly decision.

Later I heared that a cell phone use a channel on all relays within range. From the ground, it is acceptable but from 30 000 fts, with all the
planes flying around and all cell phones in them, the network would be over-loaded.

Now, simple common sense, if the pilot aborted the take off as soon as this phone was ringing in the passenger cabin, either he had a
bionic hear or, more likely, something happend on his instrument or in his radio. In such pase of flight, I can imagine that missing a
single word of instruction can have heavy consequences.

So, may be (for once) it could happend that the reason they tell is the REAL reason ? In this modern world we must keep ready for the
unbelievable...

[jboweruk]

It's interesting as they do say it interferes with electrical instruments used during t/off and landing. Yet as someone already said, pretty
much the same instrumentation is used throughout the flight. Question for Pegase, how did the Cap. know somebody's phone had
rung.... No way he could've heard it, and I shouldn't have thought it could cause a catastrophic emergency that needed him to abort takeoff
like that.??

[pegase]

I bet that he did nor hear the "bell" but this characteristic "bip bip tagada" in his headphones and/or some blur on a crt screen.
certainly, load of you has heared the sound of this interference in a tv or radio or... a fix phone. And usually this occures just before the
phone actually rings.
Then more likely, the Capt knew about this phone before us. From what I make the deduction: the cell phone is not "transparent" in a
plane then, in some occasion can cause trouble and then lower the global security level.

I don't think a cell phone can directly cause a catastrophic emergency. But inderctly, just by my little simmer experience, I can imagine that
a Capt don't want to take the risk of any missed or false indication due to that. Just imagine after take off the ATC message "ALERT
TRAFIC on your ...bip.. bip.. turn ...tuuuut... heading ...tagadagada... " or read on a digital compass your heading is 888
or try to guess aound which value a needle is jerking.

But, it is just my supposition, no science or experience. May be Brad can tell us something about it ?

[pegase]

back to the landing topic:

yesterday, I landed in Santiago (Chili) the wind was 15-20 kts from 300°. So, in good logic the ATC assigned me the runway 35 in visual
mode as the ILS is just available for the 17 direction. OK, good occasion to practice manual aproch but... although the visibility was 64
nm, the first cloud layer starting at 1000 fts kept the runway hidden (Santiago is at 1500 fts). So after a missed approach procedure I
asked the ATC for an other approach choosing the 170 ILS (No problem with the back wind, the runway is 11 000 fts more than enough
for a VC10 at 20% load).

But it is a problem with the ATC who just give an approach clearance but asks to go around and land on the previously assigned runway.

Is there any way to explain the controllers that I not only want to approach the runway 170 but also LAND on 170 ?

In real life how those conflict are solved ? who finaly have the decision ? Controller or Captain as only accountable of his plane ? "Seul
maître à bord après Dieu"

How will fspassenger handle such situation ?