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+--- Thread: Manual Landing (/showthread.php?tid=205)
Manual Landing - itael - 09-06-2005
Hi All,
I was wonderfing if FSP can "monitor" the autopilot of the flown Aricraft .. so if a pilot does an autoland he won't recieve as many bonus
points as a full manual landing ...
I think it's something worth considering , since donig a perfect flight with VNAV LNAV and a landing with autoland is not much of a
challenge ... (since the pilot will recieve bonuses for a nice landing and all the other bonuses even though he didn't actually flown the
plane himself)
I hope I made mysefl clear ...
Basically , I just would like to see extra points going to a pilot who flown the plane perfectly on manual (no Autoland)
Itai
Re: Manual Landing - jboweruk - 09-06-2005
And if it's really bad and you can't see the runway? In which case you should be given the bonus for doing the sensible thing. I see your
point but modern airliners do use autoland around 50% of the time. And in FS it doesn't always do a perfect landing, in fact I only know of
one aircraft that does, the LevelD 767 from Flight1.
Re: Manual Landing - itael - 09-06-2005
HI John,
Yes I see your point ... and you are probably right when it comes to bad weather ... however I still think it would be nice to recieve another
extra bonus of points if you do a manual landing over Autoland
I for once never engaged the autoland button on any aircraft since FS5.
Itai
Re: Manual Landing - jboweruk - 09-06-2005
I learnt to land from it. Watch the plane do the job it makes it a lot easier. I normally kill it at 200' decision height unless I'm worried the
plane will lose the runway otherwise, sometimes hold it in till around 50' and very rarely now all the way down. I don't know if Dan can add
it at this late stage though, he's already debugging and fighting to get it finished now. Maybe in a future update though.
Re: Manual Landing - Giorgio - 09-06-2005
I don't think that it should be done. The only job of a captain is "flying the plane and land safely with all his passengers". If this means
using autoland, autopilot, radar, radio, Star Trek transporters, or whatever he has available, why shouldn't he use them? Using the
technology is not a sign of weakness, so in my opinion it should not be penalized. Just my 3 cents.
Giorgio
Re: Manual Landing - itael - 09-06-2005
Hi Giorgio,
Of course not panelize a captain that does an autoland on a clear beautiful day ...
I am just talking about rewarding with extra points a pilot that land manually , that's all.
Itai
Re: Manual Landing - pegase - 09-06-2005
Just take the passenger seat for a flight and what do we like ?
A nice on time flight in good care of flight attendent ended by a smooth landing. I don't now how the captain did it, I just now the result. Would
the captain get extra pay for making it more difficult by handling the yoke between his teeth ? More likely (s)he would be kicked out...
So I would agree with Giorgio, "Use all means available to get the best result possible". I would even be a fault to ignore the auto pilot when it can
improve the flight.
To spice up the flight with difficulties, it is always possible to add cross wind with turbulrnces and low visibility and then, with some plane, no
way to get a good landing or even approach in auto mode.. And then OK bonus points are relevants when you perform a good landing in difficult
conditions. Same thing with others "natural" limits like runway dimensions or difficult approach path like Innbruck or Hong Kong.
Other thing possible when all that get too easy
downloat the TU 154 from
http://www.protu-154.com/index_e.html
It is a fantastic model made in such a way that you cannot cheat with anything even starting the engines is all a procedure. With this one, believe
me, the day you will succeed to use all navaid and autopilot operationnal, then you will ask for (deserved) bonus points....
Re: Manual Landing - georak - 09-06-2005
Looking from the company's point of view: If a pilot in real life is a good stick-and-rudder man, would it nowadays show any advantage in
his/her career if working for a major (modern) airline? Or is it not a very important issue to be a manual talent, it is rather to be sharp on
checklists and procedures, even be a fast thinking engineer?
What do you think?
Re: Manual Landing - SWAFO - 09-06-2005
Pilots using autoland ~50% of the time? Not in our company! Here at Southwest we DON'T use autoland period (considering we don't
use the Autothrottle or VNAV at all). The company's only requirement regarding the autopilot on approaches is that it be switched off no
later than 50 feet below the decision height. Normally, on a clear day with calm or steady winds I'll hand fly the approach from the final
approach fix, and sometimes further out. During gusty winds, or inclement weather it's better to be safe than sorry and use the AP.
Normally, when I use the AP I'll switch it off between 500 and 1000 ft AGL.
When I've asked the Captain (I'm a FO) why we don't use autoland, he says; "That's what you're for". When he's tired, or doesn't feel like
landing, he'll give me the aircraft... pretty close to an autoland for him. Lol.
~Brad
Southwest Airlines First Officer
Airline Transport Pilot
737 Type Rating
Re: Manual Landing - Big Vern - 09-06-2005
The PMDG 737 autoland usually thumps down and leaves the plane wobbling from side to side like John Wayne getting off a horse,
during the taxi so I will tend to disconnect the AT/AP at about 50 feet and control the flare manually. However the LDS-767 is spot on every
time and doesn't trash the undercarriage, which I presume is what's happening to the PMDG.
However I doubt I would be able to fly an approach without some sort of ILS assistance, certainly in a "heavy". Maybe one aspect easier in
the real world than a 2D monitor as regards perception of heights, vectors and a general feel for handling (just like driving cars or even
trains on the PC is probably a bit flat compared to the real thing).
Re: Manual Landing - Wisborg - 09-06-2005
Somehow I got the idea that in the real world autoland isn't used under normal circumstances, since it's important that the pilots keep in practice
(or there would be trouble if the autoland for some reason fails). Although, it was my impression that under certain weather conditions it is used.
I don't recall where I heard this, so I can't judge how likely it's how it's done.
/ Jesper
Re: Manual Landing - DanSteph - 09-06-2005
Quote:Wisborg wrote:
Somehow I got the idea that in the real world autoland isn't used under normal circumstances
Same thought here... a pilot that always use autoland would be really less trained if one time
he need to do a manual landing.
Dan
Re: Manual Landing - SWAFO - 09-06-2005
Which is one reason SWA doesn't use autoland... it keeps our pilots current on the aircraft, and less likely to become complacent.
Re: Manual Landing - jboweruk - 09-06-2005
But what about keeping the plane rated?? I read Autoland has to be used a certain amount for the plane to stay rated.
Re: Manual Landing - david1964 - 09-06-2005
hey Big Vern,you get all over the place mate...lol