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+--- Thread: Landing question for Brad (/showthread.php?tid=12069)
Landing question for Brad - Jetflyer - 24-08-2005
OK so this question is also for those programming the excellent FsP program but anyway, I am scepticle of the system of bonus points for smooth
landings, since really isn't a good landing not necessarily smooth, but a landing that touches down in the right part of the runway?
The aiming point bars at 1000ft down the runway fromthe threshold should be aimed for and a good landing in my mind is one that comes as near to this
point as possible. For example, consider the air france A340 that crashed at toronto, it landed on the runway having overflown the entire touchdown
zone, extending down 3,000ft of the runway, yet still did a "greaser" or very smooth landing. So on FSP, you would get bonus points for the landing,
even though it overshot the whole touchdown zone.
Also, on that point, (for SWAFO/SWACAP) is that when I aim for the aiming point bars I can land the plane on them yet it is a much harder landing,
say, than if I flare out the plane to the maxed and grease it down the runway, doing the latter I don't touch down until I hit at least 2000-3000ft of
runway, which is a waste of runway. So how do I do an ultra smooth landing, which can also get me in the correct point of the runway without flying
rediculously below the glideslope on approach? May sound a bit pedantic but I'd appreciate some tips anyway!
Post Edited ( 08-24-05 22:53 )
Re: Landing question for Brad - SWAFO - 25-08-2005
The aiming point is the 1000-1500FT area down the runway. The Touchdown Zone (TDZ) is painted with two white stripes on both sides
of the runway centerline. This is done at around the 1000FT mark. Ideally, you should aim to have your main gear touchdown in the TDZ
markers. At first this is very difficult (as you mention you're occasionally landing 2-3000ft down the runway), but if you PRACTICE,
PRACTICE, and PRACTICE, you'll get the hang of it. If you go to an airport, and watch the planes landing, you'll see most of the big
airliners touching down in the TDZ... why? PRACTICE! It's hard work being a pilot (although many times it may seem the opposite, or
like it's a lot of fun).
If you're touching down at the 2-3000' mark consecutively (even with smooth landings), you may be floating above the runway in an
attempt to reduce vertical speed in pursuit of that ever elusive "kiss" landing FSP occasionally graces you with. This same thing
happened to me when I learned to fly. I would flare WAY too early, and float a few thousand feet down the runway. Eventually, I got the
hang of it, and now nearly every landing is perfect with the main gear right in the TDZ (although occasionally they're way off... it's the way of
life though). Try delaying your flare until you're about 20-30 feet above the runway (in a 737). This will allow for a gentle, yet dead-on
landing. Naturally, we want to flare at much higher altitudes (50-150ft) since we think we're very close to the ground, and we're going to
hit very hard. This isn't the case. Normally, we'll cut the throttles to idle between 30-50ft AGL, and commence a smooth 3-5 degree flare
(above the pitch angle we're already at... usually positive) between 10 and 30FT AGL.
Keep practicing... you'll pick it up in no time!
Re: Landing question for Brad - jboweruk - 25-08-2005
Anything between -200fpm and -1fpm is a good landing, if you hit the Bars great, as Brad said that's a practice thing, so is a smooth
landing, don't think I ever hit the bars, too busy trying to make sure my pax don't empty their bladder after a long flight from the jolt as I hit.
Most of my landings are between 60 and 150fpm. Though one last night was -300fpm... OUCH.
Re: Landing question for Brad - olseric - 25-08-2005
Another thought for you...
I am certain that Brad is correct with is assumption that you are "floating" down the runway. To me, this suggests a couple of things that
may or may not apply in this situation.
First is the most obvious: Speed. I am not certain what kind of aircraft you normally fly, but I would suggest going to FlightSim.com or
Avsim and searching for [insert your aircraft name here (i.e. A320)] procedures. That will yield a nice compilation that was done which is
basically a heavily abridged version of the operating manual. In most that I have found by that author (I apologize that I do not recall his
name) have the speed tables included. With that information, figure out your landing weight and cross reference it into the table.
The second is how to fly. Logic tells us that if you want the airplane to go down, you put the nose down and if you want to slow down, you
retard the throttles. So let it be said, approaches are illogical...until you stop and think about it.
Adjust your speed with your pitch and your rate of descent with your throttle. Once you have a rate of descent established that coincides with the glide path, it's a cinch: you
follow the path in, using the throttle to control your positioning...near the threshold (varies by aircraft, weight, etc) add some power to slow
your rate of descent and you should touch down nicely and right on target.
Keep in the back of your mind...big aircraft are FLOWN ONTO the runway.
Re: Landing question for Brad - Jetflyer - 25-08-2005
I use Boeing 737-400 (NOT the default one!), A319 and Boeing 707.
The 737 I find easiest to do good landings in the right place, the real griper is the 707. LOL.
I nearly always overshoot the TDZ on the 707 and thump onto the runway at 200-300fpm no matter how hard I try. Yet I am much better with other planes.
Post Edited ( 08-25-05 15:34 )
Re: Landing question for Brad - jboweruk - 25-08-2005
The 200 - 300 FPM in the 707 is okay. Not gentle but within the norm. As Brad said a kiss landing is not easy to achieve, and near
impossible to achieve every time.
Re: Landing question for Brad - SWAFO - 25-08-2005
Thanks for adding the additional information guys! I try to cover all aspects of a question in one post but I usually can't do it. Thanks
again! 200-300 FPM is not a bad landing. In the real world, we consider anything about -500 FPM a GOOD landing... as they say, if you
can walk away from it, it's a good landing!