YA, cool emergency!

[Navymmw]

yesturday I just recived a really cool emergency, my gear were down but they were not locked, so I had to do a hard touch down to knok
them in to place, it took me 2 attempts the 3rd attempte i crashed

[SaVas]

LOL. It is a difficult emergency...probably one of the hardest because the alternative is a belly landing which is a stand alone emergency.
At least with gear not locking you can try try try again to get them to come down.

Best no lock gear scenario - in a tail dragger twin engine aircraft!

[KenG]

Did you try manually extending the gear to get them to lock? After recycling the gear I would then attempt to manually extend them. If they still
would not lock then I would touch down as easy as I could on the longest runway, allow the airplane to coast as much as possible to slow her down,
maybe a little reverse to prevent using the brakes. Once the airplane came to a complete stop I would set the parking break and evacuate the airplane.
Until maintenance had a chance to lock the gear I would not attempt to taxi clear of the runway.

While I am on the subject whose decision was it that you must set your transponder to 7700? If you are in fact talking to ATC and have a discrete
code, telling ATC your callsign and "Declaring an emergency" is all that is required. I guarantee once you state the words "I am declaring an
emergency" you do not have to set 7700. I was immediately handed over to the senior controller on duty who asked "state the nature of your emergency
and your intentions." Finally if we are going to be penalized for not changing squawk to 7700 then should we also be penalized for not changing to 121.5?

Let me guess, read the FAQ disable the penalty you do not agree with and move along. :grin:

[GeoBauG]

The gear won't cycle up or down after the failure. Manually extending does nothing Every time I've attempted to land it instead of bumping them
into place, it's ended up with me on my belly right before I set the parking brake, so I've just had to get good and making a couple rough touchdowns
to lock them. Fun failure.

G

[Dutch64]

Yep, it's nice, finally it's rewarding to land with a relatively high vertical speed I think when i landed at about 700ft/m suddenly they locked in
place Some time ago that this happened though so i might be wrong on the details...

[DBE]

Never happened to me...yet!

And, quite honestly, hope it never does...

[DanSteph]

The key (and it's difficult) is to come steady with about 550 fpm descent rate and DON'T
touch the command until touchdown, the touch will be a bit hard but the gear will unlock.

This is very hard because of the habit, the reflex command to pull up before touching
to get a smooth landing and not a "controlled crash"

Dan

[crowebird]

last time this happend to me, I crashed, but not due to my error. I had gone around 3 times, and on the thrid time, they finally locked, the co pilot
had said so, so I came in for the approach (three green indicated), execpt when I landed it was as if had no gear on the right side and the plane just
flopped over once I had gone below 80 kts. I had posted before but I got no word back about it...

[jetdude43]

i dont think its that hard, ive gotten it 4 times and all 4 times they locked down on the first attempt

[Fede]

I had this emergency once, I try to locked down the gear 5 times and......nope, it never came down and i had to make a belly landing
everything went fine but the gear never come down.....

[Usty]

experienced this once as passenger (front row, 3th seat) of a fokker 27 mk 200.. (aviation college introduction flight) (museum aircraft)
"major emergency, aircraft noseweel not down". the red light didn't turn green if you get me..

after visual flyby to the tower the pilot landed at schiphol east (smal runway, but large enough) with a gentle nose down at normal
speeds..
After that the aircraft was turned off and we were to leave the plane on the runway. in the hangar it seemed the gearlock sensor failed..
lol.. but it was a big problem on the older fokker 27's.. the later Fokker 50 had an improved nosegear.

Regards.
Usty

[KenG]

The key (and it's difficult) is to come steady with about 550 fpm descent rate and DON'T
touch the command until touchdown, the touch will be a bit hard but the gear will unlock.

Ok this does not make sense to me. The problem or at least as I understand it is that he has a gear that is not locked i.e. unsafe indication of
landing gear. It would thus seem the last thing I want to do is touchdown hard. Now there are many aircraft and I have heard of a small aircraft,
Piper, where one gear failed to extend at all and the pilot/owner bounced the aircraft off the runway and the gear came down, however I have not heard
of any large or heavy aircraft attempting such a stunt.

I can tell you as a King Air Instructor Pilot that I do not teach bouncing the aircraft off the runway to attempt to influence the gear to come down.
1. If you damage the extended gear during this stunt you may now be unable to retract the gear for a belly landing. 2. Once the aircraft touches down
on the runway you must continue to fly the airplane, just the shock of having one gear down and the other up may produce a downward moment on
touchdown that exceeds the ailerons on that wing. Thus you could end up with a wing strike in this case. Once the wing touches the ground the airplane
will rotate about the surface with the higher friction. In this case the wing scraping on the ground. Not to mention the change of either a propeller
strike or a turbine strike, where the change of forces inside the engine causes the turbines to scrape the wall. You may save a $25K prop at the cost
of a $1 million engine!

Clearly the choice of solution will depend on the situation. I would be much more willing to accept a landing with an unsafe nose gear as opposed to
an unsafe main. If I have someone on the ground who can confirm my gear state by doing a low pass then I would also attempt that. But when things are
bad and looking worse I will belly the airplane rather than attempt to become a test pilot.

In my opinion the rewards should be for:

1. Recycling the Gear (Sometimes a faulty down lock will correct itself if the gear is simply recycled.
2. Declaring an Emergency
3. Performing the correct emergency procedure. In FS9 this is only manual extension
4. If the gear still does not extend then retract the gear and belly her in. Shutting off the engine just prior to touchdown is bonus.
4a. If there is a way to say fail just the nose gear then choosing to land on the mains and gently setting down the nose would also be acceptable and
worth more points then bellying in a faulty nose gear.

Again I am just an instructor pilot and not an omnipotent programmer. :grin:



Post Edited ( 02-05-06 15:35 )

[Anastasios]

KenG wrote:

The key (and it's difficult) is to come steady with about 550 fpm descent rate and DON'T
touch the command until touchdown, the touch will be a bit hard but the gear will unlock.

Ok this does not make sense to me. The problem or at least as I understand it is that he has a gear that is not locked i.e. unsafe
indication of
landing gear. It would thus seem the last thing I want to do is touchdown hard. Now there are many aircraft and I have heard of a small
aircraft,
Piper, where one gear failed to extend at all and the pilot/owner bounced the aircraft off the runway and the gear came down, however I
have not heard
of any large or heavy aircraft attempting such a stunt.

I can tell you as a King Air Instructor Pilot that I do not teach bouncing the aircraft off the runway to attempt to influence the gear to come
down.
1. If you damage the extended gear during this stunt you may now be unable to retract the gear for a belly landing. 2. Once the aircraft
touches down
on the runway you must continue to fly the airplane, just the shock of having one gear down and the other up may produce a downward
moment on
touchdown that exceeds the ailerons on that wing. Thus you could end up with a wing strike in this case. Once the wing touches the
ground the airplane
will rotate about the surface with the higher friction. In this case the wing scraping on the ground. Not to mention the change of either a
propeller
strike or a turbine strike, where the change of forces inside the engine causes the turbines to scrape the wall. You may save a $25K prop
at the cost
of a $1 million engine!

Clearly the choice of solution will depend on the situation. I would be much more willing to accept a landing with an unsafe nose gear as
opposed to
an unsafe main. If I have someone on the ground who can confirm my gear state by doing a low pass then I would also attempt that. But
when things are
bad and looking worse I will belly the airplane rather than attempt to become a test pilot.

In my opinion the rewards should be for:

1. Recycling the Gear (Sometimes a faulty down lock will correct itself if the gear is simply recycled.
2. Declaring an Emergency
3. Performing the correct emergency procedure. In FS9 this is only manual extension
4. If the gear still does not extend then retract the gear and belly her in. Shutting off the engine just prior to touchdown is bonus.
4a. If there is a way to say fail just the nose gear then choosing to land on the mains and gently setting down the nose would also be
acceptable and
worth more points then bellying in a faulty nose gear.

Again I am just an instructor pilot and not an omnipotent programmer. :grin:

Well, I can't give my opinion clearly about this. All I want to say is that it DID happen on a boeing 737 and the captain first tried a few
dives to push the gear out with g-forces. Did didn't work so he tried to bounce a few times. This also didn't work and he decided to just
land the plane with only left and front gear down. He did NOT retract the gear for a belly landing. There is a video of this, I believe you can
look for it on http://www.airdisaster.com.

So this IS a real life emergency procedure for big jets.
Love your emergencies Dan!! (y)

Tasos.



Post Edited ( 02-12-06 13:04 )

[Covoxer]

KenG:
I can only add that these advices are valid for FsP as well!
FsP does not force you to bounce - no bonuses for this.
You just have to land safely, either on gear or belly.
It's much like in reality.
It's you who have to decide which way to chose.
Although FsP can lock failed gear by bouncing, you have the same risks doing this in big plane as in real world. You may easily crash
due to the wing strike for example.
So it's all in your hands!
But all your advices are very reasonable for FsP!

In my opinion the rewards should be for:

Well, as I say, there are no rewards for bouncing. Only for succesful landing, no matter whatever you do to perform it!
So I think it may stay this way.

[runibl]

Landing gear problems, It's my favorite emergency. Only had one, my landing gear didn't come down and I made a beutiful and nerve wrecking belly landing.