Overloaded A330

[MatsH]

Hello!
I'm having som difficulties with the loading of my A330's. I'm using the model from PSS and both the A332 and A333 seems to be
overloaded from start. With a full fuel-load I have a MTOW Excess of 102%, and that's without passengers and cargo. Is there any way
I can correct this, either in the Payload ini-file or in the aircraft.cfg for my A330's? What values need to be changed? I'm using the A330
payload-models that came with FsP.

Kind regards .... Mats

[DanSteph]

Hello Mats,

If your aircraft is at 102% without passengers cargo mean most probably that the
PSS aircraft.cfg is wrong (MTOW - or EMPTY weight wrong)

can you post it here please ?

Dan

[MatsH]

Hi Dan!
Thank you for your quick reply.
Here are the Weight and Balance settings for the A330's:

A330-200

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
//do not change
reference_datum_position=0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
max_number_of_stations=50

pss_num_class = THREE_CLASS // Load Editor Cfg Value
station_load.0 = 450, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 //Weight Crew (lbs) LEAVE
station_load.1 = 3000, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 //Weight Galleys (lbs) LEAVE
station_load.2 = 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 //Weight Baggage (lbs)
station_load.3 = 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 //Weight Cargo (lbs)
station_load.4 = 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 //Weight First Class (lbs)
station_load.5 = 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 //Weight Business Class (lbs)
station_load.6 = 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 //Weight Economy Class (lbs)

empty_weight = 264995.3
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 3900000
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 13000000
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 11500000
empty_weight_coupled_MO I= 0.000000
empty_weight_CG_position =0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
max_gross_weight =509046.8
empty_weight_coupled_MOI=0.000000

A330-300

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
//do not change
reference_datum_position=0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
max_number_of_stations=50

pss_num_class = THREE_CLASS // Load Editor Cfg Value
station_load.0 = 450, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 //Weight Crew (lbs) LEAVE
station_load.1 = 3000, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 //Weight Galleys (lbs) LEAVE
station_load.2 = 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 //Weight Baggage (lbs)
station_load.3 = 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 //Weight Cargo (lbs)
station_load.4 = 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 //Weight First Class (lbs)
station_load.5 = 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 //Weight Business Class (lbs)
station_load.6 = 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 //Weight Economy Class (lbs)

empty_weight = 264995.3
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 3900000
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 13000000
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 11500000
empty_weight_coupled_MO I= 0.000000
empty_weight_CG_position = 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
max_gross_weight =509046.8
empty_weight_coupled_MOI=0.000000

I belive I have the same problem with the PSS A340, but I'll get back to you on that one.
I hope you can find something wrong and come up with a solution.

Thank you in advance .... Mats



Post Edited ( 07-29-05 02:48 )

[DanSteph]

Seem correct at least for the empty weight and MTOW weight:
see here for the 300-200: http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=25

Perhaps you have too much fuel onboard, if the tank are designed a bit too large
you may end with fuel taking all the weight (also even with correct tank
some aircraft CAN'T carry all passengers with full fuel aboard)

Can you post the "load manifest" that FsP bring after the payload editor
without loading any cargo/passengers, we'll see immediately what's wrong
(simply copy past from the manifest here or post an image)

thanks

Dan

[MatsH]

Hello again Dan!
Here are a couple of screenshots of the Payload and Loadmanifest.

This is the fuel-entry for the A332:

[fuel]
Center1 = 5.0, 0.0, -4.0, 12500, 1043
LeftMain = -5.0, -20.0, 0.0, 12150, 949
RightMain = -5.0, 20.0, 0.0, 12150, 949
fuel_type=2
number_of_tank_selectors=1
electric_pump=1

fuel_type=2
number_of_tank_selectors=1
electric_pump=1

I figure that an empty plane should be able to take off with full fueltanks.
I hope this is of any help to you. I'll check back at the forum tomorrow as I'm afraid I have to go to bed now. I don't know where in the world
you are, but here in Sweden its past 3AM.

Thanks again for helping me out.
Good night .... Mats

[James]

The PSS A330 and A340 are overweight from fuel as default. You must use the fuel manager and enter all information required and use the load editor as
well and you shouldn't have a problem.
The thing I don't understand is when you set the weight with the PSS weight configurator, how does FsP detect this and then use the same weight and
amount of PAX's? I was told previously to edit the .ini file of each aircraft myself to match the PSS but its extremely difficult.

[DanSteph]

simple math:

120 metric ton empty weight
+
112 metric ton fuel

=232 ton

So this aircraft with full tank simply is at MTOW

I know that some real aircraft have nig tanks so they can make big travel when empty
but it seem to me that perhaps PSS make the tank a bit too big ? (or perhaps its normal so
they can carry the aircraft )

Any real pilot specialist ? (would be cool to have a 330 pilot

Anyhow this isn't a FSP bug if there is a bug really it is perhaps in PSS aircraft.cfg number
(but I'm not sure, it might be normal that you can't have full tanks AND full pax/cargo load)

Hope it help ?

(BTW: I'm near switzerland it's 4h20 AM here

Dan

[MatsH]

Hello again and good morning!
Wow! You really work around the clock with this program.

Thank you for your answers. I also thought about the option of long flights with an empty aircraft and a full fuel-load but I wasn't sure
about it. Perhaps it's like you say, that PSS made the fueltanks a little to big or maybe fuelweight isn't completely accurate in FS. I will do
some searching on the internet and hopefully get to the bottom of this.

I just want to say a big THANK YOU for making this program. It does so much more than just adding passengers and their opinions. It provides loadmodels for a large number of aircraft so that they perform differently depending on load, you get a co-pilot who helps you with monitoring things, and almost the best of all, a completely new damage generator. So far I've suffered from frozen flaps, unlocked gear, tailstrike and a right wing fuel-leak and I enjoyed every second of it.
It's come to the point where I can't do a single flight without FsP. So again:
Well done!

Cheers .... Mats

Oh, by the way. Have I understood this correct when I belive that FsP ignores the original Weight and Balance in the aircraft.cfg? I used
PSS loadeditor to remove all load from my aircraft because I thought maybe FsP added load to the original Weight and Balance, and if
the plane is at full load from the start FsP gives the plane a double load. But that didn't make any differance.



Post Edited ( 07-29-05 10:59 )

[nem]

MatsH wrote:
Wow! You really work around the clock with this program.

Gives you a hint at how much he earned with it already...

Just jealous, Dan... ...you deserve every cent.

[DanSteph]

MatsH wrote:
Oh, by the way. Have I understood this correct when I belive that FsP ignores the original Weight and Balance in the aircraft.cfg?.

Correct, FsP remove ALL weight appart fuel.

to technically explain why: an external loader will load basically only weight (pax/cargo) like that:

point.1=6000 lbs
point.2=3000 lbs
point.3=18000 lbs

So from those weight its completely impossible to deduce if they mean pax, apple or whatewer
and if they mean pax how much "6000" mean ? 200 lbs per passengers ? 160 ? varying ?


Thanks for kind word

Dan

[savage]

I fly almost ONLY the PSS Airbus planes, and don't really have any overloading problems with it. My main area of overloading is long haul
flights, where I have close to 240 PAX on a A340-300, with cargo and feul for a 14hr flight.

I'm normally arround a MTOW of 140%, but I still manage a good take off, flight, and landing. Load the plane's feul with FS9 before
starting FSP, and don't touch the feul meter when starting your FSP flight. It's obviously also important that the MCDU is configured
properly, but more importantly, ACCURATELY. Even without FSP, the PSS Airbuses are definately MTOW with 100% feul loads. Even the
FS9 Feul and Weight config manager shows this...

If you are over MTOW, just add some extra flaps for take off (will lower A-FLOOR speed), be GENTLE on the take off, and if you do hit A-
FLOOR / TOGA, reset the auto thrusters in the AP (I'm not sure if this is a bug in the PSS plane). With a MTOW of 140% (in my cases), I'm
generaly in a 'danger zone' untill I start to ease off at the rate of climb, normally arround 8000ft. You'll be fine from there.

--
Chris.

[nem]

But you'll get panlized for being > MTOW if you do that.

[savage]

more_options.cfg

[DanSteph]

I think flying like that is totally unrealistic (sorry nem at this time you don't get penalty for >MTOW... still todo)
I doubt the real aircraft fly at 140% MTOW but FsP is not in cause here...

either you load way too much fuel for your flight (if you end with 50 ton unusued it's a big mistake)
either there is some mistake in the aircraft.cfg. (weight are right but what about fuel tank capacity ?)

I'm surprised that PSS would do such error so it might end that you just load too much fuel
for your flight...

Any flight report made with this aircraft ? what's the remaining fuel at the end ?

Be warned that next version might add MTOW penalty
(140%? hey that's a -1400 point penalty at least !!!

Dan



Post Edited ( 07-29-05 15:17 )

[DanSteph]

nem wrote:

MatsH wrote:
Wow! You really work around the clock with this program.

Gives you a hint at how much he earned with it already...
Just jealous, Dan... ...you deserve every cent.

Looking just at money earned since now I would more likelly stop all and
go fishing

It's not bad but I'm not rich either... (remember it should pay my last years and the incoming one
while I still work 100% on FsP)

People have often a false view of gaming revenue (appart for big blockbuster as star wars or such)

Dan