[TOPIC MOVED]Controll difficulties

[georak]

So my other problem is that ever since I use PMDG Beechcraft 1900 with FSP, it makes sudden noseups and
nosedowns, as if I was in
a turbulence but much harsher. I maintain the aircraft perfectly and it doesnt say any fault in the aircraft or at the
debriefing. I am not sure if
this is a bug or the aircraft itself has a problem in the game, but I definitely did not experience this without running
FSP.

Thanks...

[georak]

Also I found that when looked at the elevator from the outside view, the elevator did move in accordance with the plane's movement. That
means, the contol surfice is getting false inputs from something...
I dont know...

[SWAFO]

I don't think FSP can cause this problem, unless the aircraft.cfg has been radically modified, and the CG is WAY off. What you are
explaining sounds like a overweight/bad CG/mis-loading issue. Would you mind copying and pasting your aircraft.cfg file for the plane
that's giving you the problems? Might be able to help you out a little more then.

Also, thread is more FS2004 than FSP, moved to FS2004 forum

[SWAFO]

georak wrote:
Also I found that when looked at the elevator from the outside view, the elevator did move in accordance with the plane's movement. That
means, the contol surfice is getting false inputs from something...
I dont know...

Then this most likely isn't a problem with FSP at all. What type of control input are you using? Joystick? Yoke? Is it calibrated correctly?

[georak]

CH FlightSim Yoke. But the problem doesnt appear in NORMAL FS flight. I already tried it before I started posting questions.

Anyway, I load the plane to 100% capacity ( that means the take off wheight all included with fuel ofcourse). I could imagine that somehow
FSP judges it is overloaded with - say - 0.5 percent, but when on aproach I still experience it despite I lost wheight enroute.

Here is the config:

[fltsim.0]
title=Beech 1900D
sim=beech_1900D
model=
panel=
sound=
texture=
kb_checklists=beech_1900D_check
kb_reference=beech_1900D_check_ref
atc_id_color=0xffffffffff
atc_id=NBE1900
ui_manufacturer=Beechcraft-PMDG Express
ui_type=1900D 2D Cockpit
ui_variation=PMDG
description="PMDG Beechcraft 1900D. \nwww.precisionmanuals.com \nFor support contact support@precisionmanuals.com"

[fltsim.1]
title=Beech 1900D - VC
sim=beech_1900D
model=vc
panel=vc
sound=
texture=
kb_checklists=beech_1900D_check
kb_reference=beech_1900D_check_ref
atc_id_color=0xffffffffff
atc_id=NBE1900
ui_manufacturer=Beechcraft-PMDG Express
ui_type=1900D VC
ui_variation=PMDG
description="PMDG Beechcraft 1900D. \nwww.precisionmanuals.com \nFor support contact support@precisionmanuals.com"

[fltsim.2]
title=Beech 1900D - Cabin
sim=beech_1900D
model=vccab
panel=vc
sound=
texture=
kb_checklists=beech_1900D_check
kb_reference=beech_1900D_check_ref
atc_id_color=0xffffffffff
atc_id=NBE1900
ui_manufacturer=Beechcraft-PMDG Express
ui_type=1900D VC & Cabin
ui_variation=PMDG
description="PMDG Beechcraft 1900D. \nwww.precisionmanuals.com \nFor support contact support@precisionmanuals.com"


[General]
atc_type=BEECH AIRCRAFT
atc_model=
editable=0
performance="Cruise Speed\t\n287 kts 330 mph 531 kmph\/h\n\nEngines\t\nPratt & Whitney PT6A-67D 1,279
shp\n\nMaximum Range\t\n690nm \t 1,278km\n\nService Ceiling\t\n25,000 ft 7,620 m\n\nFuel Capacity\t\n665.4 U.S. gal
2,518.8 L\n\nMaximum Takeoff Weight \n16,950 lb\t 7,688kg\n\nLength\t\n57.8 ft\t 17.62 m\n\nWingspan\t\n57.9 ft\t 17.65
m\n\nHeight\t\n14.9 ft\t 4.54 m\n\nSeating\t\nUp to 19\n\"

[EXITS]
number_of_exits = 2

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
reference_datum_position = 23.711, 0.0, 1.40
empty_weight_CG_position = -22.109, 0.0, 0.35
max_gross_weight = 17060.0
empty_weight = 10590.0
CG_forward_limit=0.150
CG_aft_limit=0.390

max_number_of_stations = 50

station_load.0 = "170.0, -9.24, -1.2, 2.0, Pilot"
station_load.1 = "170.0, -9.24, 1.2, 2.0, Co-Pilot"
station_load.2 = "1640.0, -23.18, 0.0, 0.0, Passengers"
station_load.3 = "0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, FsStation"
station_load.4 = "0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, FsStation"
station_load.5 = "0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, FsStation"
station_load.6 = "0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, FsStation"

;Moments of Inertia
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 44246.0 // 39246.0, 49246.0
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 42022.0 // 47022.0
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 43478.0
empty_weight_coupled_MOI= 120.0

[fuel]
LeftMain = -22.81, -14.43, -1.0, 241.9, 0.8 //Longitudinal (feet), Lateral (feet), Vertical (feet), Usable(gallons), Unusable (gallons)
LeftAux = -22.10, -1.44, -1.7, 92.7, 0.0 //Longitudinal (feet), Lateral (feet), Vertical (feet), Usable(gallons), Unusable (gallons)
RightMain = -22.81, 14.43, -1.0, 241.9, 0.8 //Longitudinal (feet), Lateral (feet), Vertical (feet), Usable(gallons), Unusable (gallons)
RightAux = -22.10, 1.44, -1.7, 92.7, 0.0 //Longitudinal (feet), Lateral (feet), Vertical (feet), Usable(gallons), Unusable (gallons)
fuel_type = 2 //Fuel type: 1 = Avgas, 2 = JetA
number_of_tank_selectors = 1
electric_pump=1

[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar = 1.0
parasite_drag_scalar = 1.0
induced_drag_scalar = 1.0
elevator_effectiveness = 1.0
aileron_effectiveness = 1.0
rudder_effectiveness = 1.0
pitch_stability = 1.0
roll_stability = 1.0
yaw_stability = 1.0
elevator_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
aileron_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
rudder_trim_effectiveness = 1.0

[propeller]
thrust_scalar = 1.0 //Propeller thrust scalar
propeller_type = 0 //0=Constant Speed, 1=Fixed Pitch
propeller_diameter = 9.166 //Propeller Diameter, (feet)
propeller_blades = 4 //Number of propeller blades
propeller_moi = 36.2 //Propeller moment of inertia
beta_max = 45.0 //Maximum blade pitch angle for constant speed prop, (degrees)
beta_min = 8.0 //Minimum blade pitch angle for constant speed prop, (degrees)
min_gov_rpm = 31345.6 //Miminum governed RPM (1400 RPM)
prop_tc = 0.008 //Prop time-constant
gear_reduction_ratio = 22.39 //Propeller gear reduction ratio
fixed_pitch_beta = 0 //Fixed pitch angle of fixed pitch prop, (degrees)
low_speed_theory_limit = 80 //Speed at which low speed theory becomes blended in (feet/second)
prop_sync_available = 1 //Prop synchronization available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_deice_available = 1 //Prop de-icing available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_feathering_available= 1 //Prop feathering available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_auto_feathering_available= 1 //Prop auto-feathering available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
min_rpm_for_feather = 700.0 //Minimum RPM for prop feathering
beta_feather = 79.0 //Feathering pitch angle (degrees)
power_absorbed_cf = 0.9 //Coefficient of friction for power absorbed by propeller
defeathering_accumulators_available= 0 //Defeathering accumulators available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_reverse_available = 1 //Prop reverse available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
minimum_on_ground_beta = 7.0 //Miminum pitch angle on ground, (degrees)
minimum_reverse_beta = -14.0 //Minimum pitch angle in reverse, (degrees)
rotation=1,1

[TurbineEngineData]
fuel_flow_gain = 0.024 //Gain on fuel flow
inlet_area = 1.0 //Square Feet, engine nacelle inlet area
rated_N2_rpm = 38062.5 //RPM, second stage compressor rated value
static_thrust = 176.7 //Lbs, max rated static thrust at Sea Level (1700 RPM)

[turboprop_engine]
power_scalar = 1.0 //Scalar on Turboprop power
maximum_torque = 3950.0 //Maximum torque available (ft-lbs)
max_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=0.960
idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=0.975

[GeneralEngineData]
engine_type = 5 //0=Piston, 1=Jet, 2=None, 3=Helo-Turbine, 4=Rocket, 5=Turboprop
Engine.0 = -16.17, -8.52, 1.2 //(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical distance from reference datum
Engine.1 = -16.17, 8.52, 1.2 //(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical distance from reference datum
fuel_flow_scalar = 0.978 //Scalar for fuel flow efficiency
min_throttle_limit = -0.25; //Minimum percent throttle. Generally negative for turbine reverser

[electrical]
;BusType, MaxAmpLoad, MinVoltage BusTypes:0=MainBus,1=AvionicsBus,2=BatteryBus,3=HotBatteryBus,4-
7=Generator/AlternatorBus(1-4)
flap_motor = 0, 5 , 17.0
gear_motor = 0, 5 , 17.0
autopilot = 0, 5 , 17.0
avionics_bus = 0, 5 , 17.0
avionics = 1, 5 , 17.0
pitot_heat = 0, 2 , 17.0
additional_system = 0, 2 , 17.0
marker_beacon = 1, 2 , 17.0
gear_warning = 0, 2 , 17.0
fuel_pump = 0, 5 , 17.0
starter1 = 0, 20, 17.0
light_nav = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_beacon = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_landing = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_taxi = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_strobe = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_panel = 0, 5 , 17.0

[gear_warning_system]
gear_warning_available = 1 //Normal
pct_throttle_limit = 0.1 //Percent throttle that activates warning
flap_limit_idle = 15.0 //Flap angle that activates warning at idle
flap_limit_power = 30.0 //Flap angle that activates warning at above idle

[brakes]
parking_brake = 1 //Parking brake available
toe_brakes_scale = 1.0 //Brake scalar

[hydraulic_system]
normal_pressure = 3000.0 //PSI
electric_pumps = 0 //no electric pumps
engine_map = 1,1,0,0 //pumps on Eng1,2

[Views]
eyepoint = -9.539, -1.675, 3.0

[LIGHTS]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 5=landing 9=logo
light.0 = 3, -22.902, -27.087, 1.472, fx_navred_pmdg1900 , //Nav Left
light.1 = 3, -22.502, -27.087, 1.472, fx_navred_pmdg1900 , //Nav Left
light.2 = 3, -22.902, 27.087, 1.472, fx_navgre_pmdg1900 , //Nav Right
light.3 = 3, -22.502, 27.087, 1.472, fx_navgre_pmdg1900 , //Nav Right
light.4 = 1, -28.900, 0.300, -1.943, fx_beacon_pmdg_b1900, //Beacon Bottom
light.5 = 2, -24.495, -28.850, 2.000, fx_strobe_pmdg1900 , //Strobe Left
light.6 = 2, -24.495, 28.850, 2.000, fx_strobe_pmdg1900 , //Strobe Right
light.7 = 3, -56.750, 0.000, 10.648, fx_navwhi , //Position Rear
light.8 = 3, -52.750, 0.000, 10.900, fx_navwhi , //Position Rear Top
light.9 = 9, -54.000, -2.500, 6.648, fx_pmdglogo1900, //Logo Light Tail
light.10 = 9, -54.000, 2.500, 6.648, fx_pmdglogo1900, //Logo Light Tail

[Radios]
// Radio Type = availiable, standby frequency, has glide slope
Audio.1 = 1
Com.1 = 1, 0
Com.2 = 1, 0
Nav.1 = 1, 0, 1
Nav.2 = 1, 0, 0
Adf.1 = 1
Transponder.1 = 1
Marker.1 = 1

[keyboard_response]
//Breakpoint speeds (knots) on the keyboard increments of control surfaces.
//Speed at which the incremenet is reduced to 1/2 and 1/8 respectively.
elevator = 130, 200
aileron = 180, 200
rudder = 130, 200

[direction_indicators]
//1 Type: 0=None, 1=Vacuum Gyro, 2=Electric Gyro, 3=Electro-Mag Slaved Compass, 4=Slaved to another
//2 Indicator number of slaving indicator if Type = 4
direction_indicator.0=3,0

[attitude_indicators]
//Type: 0=None, 1=Vacuum Gyro, 2=Electric Gyro
attitude_indicator.0 = 1

[turn_indicators]
//Type: 0=None, 1=Electric Gyro, 2= Vacuum Gyro
turn_indicator.0=1,0

[EFFECTS]
wake=fx_wake
water=fx_spray
dirt=fx_tchdrt
concrete=fx_sparks
touchdown=fx_tchdwn_s, 1

[stall_warning]
type=2

[airplane_geometry]
wing_area = 303.0 //Square feet
wing_span = 57.98 //Feet
wing_root_chord = 8.74 //Feet
wing_dihedral = 6.0 //Degrees
wing_incidence = 0.5 //Degrees [inop]
wing_twist = -2.0 //Degrees [inop]
oswald_efficiency_factor= 0.895 //Measure of lift effeciency of wing
wing_winglets_flag = 1 //Are winglets available?
wing_sweep = 1.0 //Degrees, wing leading edge
wing_pos_apex_lon = -20.217 //Feet, longitudinal distance from reference point, negative going aft
wing_pos_apex_vert = -0.38 //Feet, vertical distance from reference point, positive going up
htail_area = 132.0 //Square feet [85.38 + 31.68 + 15.00 effective increased by fixed fins and stabs]
htail_span = 18.48 //Feet
htail_pos_lon = -51.82 //Feet, longitudinal distance from reference point, negative going aft [effective]
htail_pos_vert = 6.3525 //Feet, vertical distance from reference point, positive going up [effective]
htail_incidence = 0.0 //Degrees
htail_sweep = 22.5 //Degrees, horizontal tail leading edge [effective]
vtail_area = 86.29 //Square feet
vtail_span = 6.93 //Feet, tip to body
vtail_sweep = 40.0 //Degrees, vertical tail leading edge
vtail_pos_lon = -52.7 //Feet, longitudinal distance from reference point, negative going aft
vtail_pos_vert = 9.8 //Feet, vertical distance from reference point, positive going up
elevator_area = 30.0 //Square feet
aileron_area = 25.34 //Square feet
rudder_area = 25.68 //Square feet
elevator_up_limit = 17.0 //Degrees
elevator_down_limit = 15.5 //Degrees
aileron_up_limit = 18.0 //Degrees
aileron_down_limit = 18.0 //Degrees
rudder_limit = 30.0 //Degrees
elevator_trim_limit = 15.0 //Degrees
spoiler_limit = 0.0 //Degrees
spoilerons_available = 0 //Spoilerons Available?
aileron_to_spoileron_gain = 0 //Aileron to spoileron gain
min_ailerons_for_spoilerons = 0.0 //Degrees
min_flaps_for_spoilerons = 0.0 //Minimum flap handle position when spoilerons activate

[Reference Speeds]
flaps_up_stall_speed = 104.0 //Knots True (KTAS)
full_flaps_stall_speed = 88.0 //Knots True (KTAS)
cruise_speed = 240.0 //Knots True (KTAS)
max_mach = 0.48
max_indicated_speed = 247 //Red line (KIAS)

[flaps.0]
type = 1 // 1 - tail, 2 - lead
span-outboard = 0.62 // 0.0 .. 1.0
extending-time = 12.5 // seconds
lift_scalar = 1.00 // Normalised
drag_scalar = 1.00 // Normalised
pitch_scalar = 1.00 // Normalised
flaps-position.0 = 0.0 // degrees
flaps-position.1 = 17.0,188.0 // degrees
flaps-position.2 = 35.0,143.0 // degrees

[flaps.1]
type = 1 // 1 - tail, 2 - lead
span-outboard = 0.62 // 0.0 .. 1.0
extending-time = 12.5 // seconds
lift_scalar = -1.00 // Normalised
drag_scalar = 0.80 // Normalised
pitch_scalar = 0.00 // Normalised
flaps-position.0 = 0.0 // degrees
flaps-position.1 = 0.0 // degrees
flaps-position.2 = 16.0 // degrees

[autopilot]
autopilot_available= 1
flight_director_available= 1
default_vertical_speed= 100.0
autothrottle_available= 0
pitch_takeoff_ga=9.0
max_pitch=12.0
max_pitch_acceleration=0.8
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2.00
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.75 // was 1.50
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000.0
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000.0
max_bank=25.0
max_bank_acceleration=1.8
max_bank_velocity=3.00
max_throttle_rate=0.10
nav_proportional_control=5.50 // was 9.50
nav_integrator_control=0.25
nav_derivative_control=0.50
nav_integrator_boundary=2.50
nav_derivative_boundary=0.00
gs_proportional_control=9.52
gs_integrator_control=0.26
gs_derivative_control=0.00
gs_integrator_boundary=0.70
gs_derivative_boundary=0.00
yaw_damper_gain = 1.0

[forcefeedback]
stick_shaker_magnitude=5000 ; 0 - 10000
stick_shaker_direction=0 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
stick_shaker_period=111111 ; in microseconds
gear_bump_nose_magnitude=3000 ; 0 - 10000
gear_bump_nose_direction=18000 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
gear_bump_nose_duration=250000 ; in microseconds
gear_bump_left_magnitude=2700 ; 0 - 10000
gear_bump_left_direction=9000 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
gear_bump_left_duration=250000 ; in microseconds
gear_bump_right_magnitude=2700 ; 0 - 10000
gear_bump_right_direction=27000 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
gear_bump_right_duration=250000 ; in microseconds
ground_bumps_magnitude1=1300 ; 0 - 10000
ground_bumps_angle1=08900 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
ground_bumps_intercept1=3.0
ground_bumps_slope1=0.20
ground_bumps_magnitude2=200 ; 0 - 10000
ground_bumps_angle2=09100 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
ground_bumps_intercept2=1.075
ground_bumps_slope2=0.035
crash_magnitude1=10000 ; 0 - 10000
crash_direction1=01000 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
crash_magnitude2=10000 ; 0 - 10000
crash_direction2=9000 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
crash_period2=75000 ; in microseconds
crash_duration2=2500000 ; in microseconds
//0 Class <0=none,1=wheel, 2=scrape, 3=float>
//1 Longitudinal Position (feet)
//2 Lateral Position (feet)
//3 Vertical Position (feet)
//4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)
//5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
//6 Wheel Radius (feet)
//7 Steer Angle (degrees)
//8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)
//9 Max/Static Compression Ratio
//10 Damping Ratio (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped)
//11 Extension Time (seconds)
//12 Retraction Time (seconds)
//13 Sound Type
//14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)
//15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)

[contact_points]
point.0=1, -1.137, 0.000, -5.452, 1200, 0, 0.677, 40.0, 0.371, 2.0242, 0.8016, 4.5, 4.2, 0, 166.0, 184.0
point.1=1, -24.633, -8.580, -5.465, 1600, 1, 1.000, 0.0, 0.315, 2.3841, 0.8152, 5.1, 5.2, 2, 166.0, 184.0
point.2=1, -24.633, 8.580, -5.465, 1600, 2, 1.000, 0.0, 0.315, 2.3841, 0.8152, 4.8, 4.9, 3, 166.0, 184.0
point.3=2, -21.945, -28.990, 2.310, 750, 0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0000, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0.0, 0.0
point.4=2, -21.945, 28.990, 2.310, 750, 0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0000, 0.0, 0.0, 6, 0.0, 0.0
point.5=2, -43.893, 0.000, -1.567, 750, 0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0000, 0.0, 0.0, 9, 0.0, 0.0
point.6=2, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 750, 0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0000, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0

static_pitch = -0.19
static_cg_height = 3.805
gear_system_type=1 //Hydraulic

[SWAFO]

I don't see any problem with the aircraft.cfg file. However, I think it may be related to a CG issue. When you set up your aircraft using the
FSP before-flight menu, where exactly is the CG located? Is it near center? There's a bar with tick marks on it that should display your
CG. It's best to keep it as close to center as possible. I hope I'm explaining it ok, and you know what I'm talking about.

If the CG is ok, then I'm lost. If your control yoke is calibrated correctly, and it doesn't happen during normal flight (without FSP), I don't
know what else it could be.


One other idea: Does it happen while climbing with the autopilot engaged in VS mode? Basically, if the aircraft is trying to maintain say
+2000ft/min, and you're near your stall limit, the aircraft could start erattically pitching as you mention it is occuring. Also, this might
happen if you're in altitude hold mode, and near your stall speed (or a high overspeed for that matter). Let me know more about the
conditions at which it occurs at.

[georak]

The CG is almost exactly on top of the center mark. The problem appeares just after lift off, quite positive that the AP is off. Well, tomorrow
I will try to play with the take off wheight, as You mentioned it as a potential problem. Thanks for the help. good night, as it is just after
midnight (Hungary).

Thanks again...

[SWAFO]

What is your speed immediately after takeoff? Chances are you may be stalling, and getting the pitch oscillations associated with such
an event.

[georak]

120 kts when lift off. But stalling at cruise speed and alt strait and level? The thing is that I did not encounter this problem when using the
first release of FSP, used the ATR and other GA aircraft and could hand-fly them all the way. Now I tried it to load the plane only 99%. All
the same problem...
I even thought that ActiveSky could missinteract due to some turbulance, but from the movement of the elevator it seams that the control
surface is getting some input, but I am not doing it, nor the AP.

[Ryanamur]

Try disabeling the weight input. It's a new function in the more_option.cfg.

[georak]

I just inspected the aircraft (737-400 default for now) from the outside view on the ramp, FSP activated, about 70% loaded, all systems off:
the elevator was moving up and down randomly (but within 2 sec. interval). Afterwards, I aborted the FSP session, the elevator came to a
halt, only moved when I moved it with the yoke.

I will disable the weight input now ...

[georak]

No change...

[SWAFO]

I'm lost here. It sounds like you're having trouble with the actual input of flight control. If you unplug your yoke, does the problem with the
elevator still occur? If the yoke is calibrated correctly, and FSUIPC (assuming you have it) is set up correctly, you shouldn't have a
problem. If I remember correctly in FSUIPC there is a setting to disable control input spikes (or something of the equivalent). Perhaps
you could try that?

[silo]

I have exactly the same problem when the "wake turbulence" option is enabled in ActiveSky preferences. Are you using ActiveSky by any
chance?

[SWAFO]

I think he mentioned he was using activesky.