No Subject

[iflyfsx]

We are not going to run out of oil today or tomorrow, but soon enough. The reserves are not infinite, no matter how much we drill.

But that's not the point. Look at gas prices today, and how airlines are going bankrupt. That's not exactly efficient. We simply don't have a real
alternative.

It's a problem of demand and supply. The demand is not going to decrease any time soon, and the supply is not going to increase any time soon.

And then we have the effect on the environment. Oh, boy. We are so screwed.

[Hurricane]

Schiphol airport (EHAM) has done tests using this technique 10-15 years ago (maybe even longer). The ieda was to come in at higher
altitude that is custom today (say 4000-5000 ft) and then come in at very low power settings. This would reduce noise levels drastically
(no-one cared about fuel that much these days).

The tests were successful in the sense that it could be done, but apparently the flying skills required, the fact that different approach
procerures should be used depending on the weather conditions (you do get a steeper descent rate whick is not desirable in low visibility
conditions) and the wind-up time for the engines to go from idle or very low power settings to TOGA (making go around a potentially risky
affair, especially because of the steeper descent) caused the idea to be abandoned. So this is a very old idea indeed. Maybe new
technology has taken away some of the downsides, but definitely not all I would imagine.

And if this is used as standard procedure today (UPS?), how would that work? Only with visual approach I gather, because there's no way
you can stay on the ILS glidepath with your engines idled. The Turkish airlines crash near EHAM proved that more than sufficiently! And
would ATC allow you to deviate from the normal approach procedure? Again, I think not (at least not on busy airports).

[relichd]

Yep, the thrust idle to go-around power time would be the thing I would be most worried about. And virtually any situation, requiring a swift action
of the pilot to increase the thrust to prevent getting into stall... I just don't like it at all...

[Qantas 737 pilot]

Post Edited ( 04-30-11 01:59 )

[Joeflyer]

iflyfsx wrote:
We are not going to run out of oil today or tomorrow, but soon enough. The reserves are not infinite, no matter how much we drill.

But that's not the point. Look at gas prices today, and how airlines are going bankrupt. That's not exactly efficient. We simply don't have a
real
alternative.

It's a problem of demand and supply. The demand is not going to decrease any time soon, and the supply is not going to increase any
time soon.

And then we have the effect on the environment. Oh, boy. We are so screwed.

I'd like to know where you get your statistics on how much supply we don't have in natural resources, sir. Fact is, we have so much that is
untapped right now and that's the problem. Sure, the refined supply can definitely run out, but the unrefined is plentiful. Mother nature
doesn't stop doing her thing, that's for sure. I know what your are trying to say in your post and I agree to a certain point, but if we don;t
build more refineries now, we may well be "screwed" in the future.

[iflyfsx]

Here: http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

And here: http://www.theoildrum.com/

And here: http://www.peakoil.net/

And so on. But so what? Just look around you. Has the price of gas been going up or down? At what rate?

Can we really depend on magical new sources of crude oil that will not cost any more to extract? How realistic is that?

If it were that easy, we would be doing it already [extracting oil cheaply]. Gas prices would be going down, or at least staying the same.

And how much longer can we keep burning that oil? The damage to the ecosystem is not something that is "going to happen." It has been happening for
quite a while, it is happening right now, and it will continue to happen for a long time.

Even if we completely stopped using oil today, the damage would not reverse itself away overnight. The species that have gone extinct are not going to
come back. And it's not just a matter of a few species going away. The ecosystem is insanely complicated, where every-thing affects everything else.
We can't fully understand or predict the end results, but we can see where we are heading.

[Joeflyer]

Ok, if you take the emotion out of the equation (based on strict environmentalism), the web sites you produced are solely based on
environmentalism, which is emotionally based. To me, and my opinion only, they are not credible sources. I rely on the statistics and
research of oil exploration companies within the US...which are many. I'm not here to disrespect your opinion based on what you believe. I
don't agree with the degree of impact we are having on the environment within the US due to oil production, as we don't produce a great
deal of oil to begin with. The technological advances in oil extraction has gained by leaps and bounds in order to reduce significantly the
impact of envrionmental damage. Yet, oil to some, is a "dirty word" and should be banished from the earth. We were given these natural
resources to use them and now it seems taboo to do just that....according to some. The fact that animals go exctinct is as old as the
existence of the earth...with or without our help to speed it along. I'm not saying we shouldn't be good stewards of the ground we live on,
but to stifle growth in every way, for the sake of a snail dart for example, is not good economic sense. But, I digress. I'm sure people here
won't appreciate our bantering back and forth on this type of issue. We can agree to disagree, so I think we should take this to a different
venue if you choose to do so, agree?



Post Edited ( 10-02-09 07:30 )

[Qantas 737 pilot]

Post Edited ( 04-30-11 02:14 )

[SirN]

i posted about this the year 2006 when it was announced

http://www.fspassengers.com/forum/showth...6#pid93716

[gbapache]

What in the name of Zeus's butt does any of this have to do with MSFS or FSP??????????????????????? Or the love of flying for that matter?



Post Edited ( 10-02-09 22:45 )

[Tracker801]

Apache!!!!
Heel......


As for the topic..... thats not new landing.... its standard procedure

[iflyfsx]

>the web sites you produced are solely based on
environmentalism, which is emotionally based

Dude. The SCIENCE behind all this is not "emotionally based." The SCIENTISTS telling you how the world works are not emotionally based.

You say "environmentalism" as if it were a bad word. I don't even consider myself an environmentalism. I don't belong to any environmental group. But
I do have an interesting in not polluting the air we ALL breathe and the water we ALL drink. This is not a political issue or an emotional issue. It's
called common sense, survival and quality of life.

Yes, animals do naturally go extinct, BUT NOT AT THIS UNNATURAL RATE. You have a lot of fact checking to do.

But this is not about cute furry animals. This is about US, HUMANS, who depend on those animals, plants, air, and so on. Even if you think we are at
the top of the food chain, what happens when you start taking down the foundations of those chains or towers? Does the top stay up magically in the
air, or does it all fall down?

Quality of life has improved significantly for a very small percentage of people on the planet, but huge numbers do not even have access to drinking
water. That is a fact, not an emotion. The planet is fine and will continue to be fine. WE are screwed.

[timtomairways]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s0nzsU1Wg

[gbapache]

What are you saying? "From each his abilaty, to each his need"? Sounds like a Russian guy I heard about in a university class I was
sober for. Because a species exists today does not mean that it must exist for all time. It sucks, but it's the rules. The only rule I
know of now is 186,000.000mi/sec. Evolution works because it was invited by THE Big Guy. Quit frankly I don't know why we are having a
geo-political, environmental, theological, economic, beer induced arguement on a flying forum.

As my hero Ronald Reagan said a few years ago, "Mr. Tracky, tear down this thread!!"

[timtomairways]

i dont think thats exactly what he said.

but i agree