Overloaded A330

[nem]

Don't worry, I've been in the game biz for a couple of years myself and then got the hell out of there, partly because it's hard to get rich there.

[savage]

Flight report, FACT to VHHH, MTOW about 140%... This was a REALLY REALLY bad flight on my side however, I'm a bit ashamed to post
this


Flight CNA662 flight report log Date July 17 2005

Flight ID: CNA662
Pilot: Chris Knipe
Company: Cenergy Airways
Aircraft: PSS A340-200 CFM South African Airways
Flight Date: July 17 2005
Departure: 15h21 (13h21 GMT)
Arrival: 11h38 (03h39 GMT)
From: FACT - Cape Town Intl - South Africa
To: VHHH - Hong Kong Intl - Hong Kong
Nbr of Passengers: 180

Incident Report:

The flaps were extended at excessive airspeed and were damaged. There was an exceptional pilot on board and despite the dire
situation he was able to land the aircraft safely. The Captain has also declared an emergency before landing.


Report:

Flight Distance: 6,392 Nm Landing Speed: 157.89 kt
Time Airborne: 14h06:01 Landing Touchdown: -318.46 ft/m
Flight Time (block): 14h20:08 Landing Pitch: 7.50°
Time On Ground: 00h14:43 Landing Weight: 375039 lbs
Average Speed: 453.03 kt Total Fuel Used: 193613 lbs
Max. Altitude: FL 380 Fuel Not Used: 38752 lbs
Climb Time: 00h19:02 Climb Fuel Used: 10970 lbs
Cruise Time: 13h12:41 Cruise Fuel Used: 175541 lbs
Average Cruise Speed: 461.56 kt (M0.74) Cruise fuel/hour: 13287 lbs (calc)
Descent Time: 00h34:18 Descent Fuel Used: 7101 lbs


Passenger Opinion: Exceptional flight (100%)
-Are pleased to have landed right on schedule.
-Were irritated because they were hungry sometime during the flight.
-Were pleased by the music on ground. A very nice addition to their flying experience.
-Were very anxious because of the problem during flight.
-Were relieved to land safely after an emergency.

Financial Report:

Ticket Income: +$197,225 (6,392 Nm)
Cargo Income: +$133,356 (39998 lbs)
Services Income: +$3,686 (2 sandwich 2 hot food 6 drink)
Services Cost: -$5,411 (80% quality)
Fuel Cost: -$93,134 (193613 lbs Jet-A1)
Airport Taxes: -$551 (Heavy Aircraft)
Insurance Costs: -$69,005 (4.32% rate)
Total Real Income: $166,166
Total Income: $8,308,300 (real x50)
Fleet Bonus: $0 (3 aircraft ,no flights today)
Total Sim Income: $8,308,300 (total income+fleet bonus)

Company Reputation:

Considering that the flight was perfect the ticket price normal, the service price normal and the service quality perfect, passengers on this
flight think that your company's reputation should be 100%
Your company reputation is now: 84% (+1.55 increase)


Overall Flight Result: Horrible

Pilot Bonus points: 50 points
There was a problem aboard and you declared an emergency. (+50 only you caused the problem)

Pilot's Penalty points: -1113 points
You made a serious pilot error that resulted in a critical problem. (-800)
You have exceeded the flap speed limit by 31.40kts (-313)



( 4 penalty disabled by more_option.cfg )



I must say though, I've been picking up allot of 'small' things that are wrong on the PSS planes. Perhaps I should just compile a list and
mail it through to them, maybe they'll fix it. Oh yes, and as you can see, I ran out of food as well BTW Dan... You still have my priv msg, I still don't have a reply -g-


--
Chris.



Post Edited ( 07-30-05 22:17 )

[DanSteph]

savage wrote:
I ran out of food as well [] ...You still have my priv msg, I still don't have a reply -g-

mhhh wich one of the 450 P.M. that are waiting in my box ?

Ah got it... sorry at this time I can find a minute to start a new project or help anyone
to code a DLL, too busy with update and support...

I'll allow more food , about 330 perhaps one may review the range of 330
can he really do 14h flight at full capacity ?

I don't know but either cosumption is wrong either something is wrong in PSS's
aircraft eihter all is right but one can't make such long flight with this weight

Cheers

Dan

[savage]

I did 14hrs and was not even at full capacity.

L/R tanks 100%, center about 90%. I think at optimal load with max capacity, the A340 can do arround 7500nm. I'm not 100% on this
though. I know the A380 can DEFINATELY reach 8000 / 8500nm

The fact that the PSS plane's seat bealt sign doesn't register with FsP already tells me that button is modelled incorrectly. I guess it's
very possible that the feul tanks / consumption is not right either. PSS must fix this crap

Dan, re the DDL... Drop me a mail when you're not *THAT* busy. Prop after you release the new version. We can definately talk and help
each other.

--
Chris.

[MatsH]

Hello again!
I've done some research on the internet and compared it to the PSS A330 aircrafts and I have come up with the following:

A330-200

REAL WORLD AIRCRAFT
Empty: 120.520 Kg.
Max. zero-fuel weight:170.070 Kg.
Fuel: 139.090 liter. (111.670 Kg)
Max. payload: 48.988 Kg.

Max. take off weight: 239.950 Kg.
Max. landing weight: 181.982 Kg

PSS AIRCRAFT
Empty: 120.450 Kg.
Fuel: 139.300 liter. (111.830 Kg)

Max. take off weight: 231.400 Kg.


A330-300

REAL WORLD AIRCRAFT
Empty: 124.512 Kg.
Max. zero-fuel weight:174.997 Kg.
Fuel: 97.530 liter. (78.010 Kg)
Max. payload: 50.304 Kg.

Max. take off weight: 239.950 Kg.
Max. landing weight: 187.017 Kg.

PSS AIRCRAFT
Empty: 120.450 Kg.
Fuel: 139.300 liter. (111.830 Kg)

Max. take off weight: 231.400 Kg.

As you can see the PSS A330-300 have to large fueltanks (139.300 liter compared to 97.530 liter). I have written a post on the PSS
support-forum about this but haven't got an answer yet. Other than that the numbers are fairly close to eachother.

Also it seems that a fully fueled A330-200 is very close to MTOW without any passengers or cargo, so that apperars to be accurate.

I've got the real world data from the following site: http://www.zap16.com/civ%20fact/civ%20airbus%20a330.htm .
I don't know if it's 100% accurate but I suppose it's reasonably close anyway. So far I haven't done any compares of the A340.

I don't know if this is of any interest to you but I thought I'd post it anyway.

Have a nice day .... Mats



Post Edited ( 07-31-05 15:56 )

[James]

I have just tried to configure my PSS A330-200 for the route: Dublin-Los-Angelas but even with no baggage or cargo and only 80% PAX's I'm still
overweight for the takeoff by loads. How can this be? Theres obviously some glitch with the A330 if its overweight for this flight which it shouldn't
be because its done everyday by EI.

[MatsH]

Hi James!
How much fuel do you have onboard and how much overweight are you?
As stated in my previous post the PSS A332 have a MTOW of approx. 231.400 Kg, while the real aircraft MTOW is 239.950 Kg.
You could try to change the value for max_gross_weight in the aircraft.cfg from 509046.8 Lbs to 527890.0 Lbs. However I'm not sure if
this will do anyting or perhaps even screw up the weights in the MCDU. I don't have much experience with editing these files.

Anyway, if you want to try you'll find the max_gross_weight under WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE. Make sure to backup the file first.
In theory (mine anyway) this will give you an extra 8565 Kg of load-capacity.

.... Mats



Post Edited ( 07-31-05 15:54 )

[James]

If I can remember right, I had about 110,000kg of fuel and, as states above, with no baggage or cargo and only 70% PAX's I was overweight by about
40,000-50,000kg which is way way too much. I've posted a reply to the topic brought up on the PSS Support forum but whether or not its approved to be
put up is another story because I did state in it that I was slightly p***ed off with PSS because nobody ever helped me with my problems and when I
had some previous problems I had to consult their publisher 'Just Flight' and get help form them instead. I've also e-mailed PSS Support so I better
get an e-mail back soon on how to improve the issue because I paid €45 for this addon and have now found that on such long routes your're overweight
when you shouldn't be, it's rediculous.

[savage]

I did make another post about this as well, but the PSS Airbusses can load 100% feul and be < MTOW. It's a matter of loading the
payload correctly.

--
Chris.

[MatsH]

savage wrote:
I did make another post about this as well, but the PSS Airbusses can load 100% feul and be <MTOW. It's a matter of loading the
payload correctly.

--
Chris.

Hmm, now you've lost me.
100% fuel in an A332 is ca 111.830 Kg. If you add the aircrafts own weight to that (120.450 Kg) you'll get 232.280 Kg. Since MTOW on the
PSS A332 is 231.400 Kg you are almost 900 Kg overweight already. However, in the real world MTOW for the A332 is 239.950 Kg, so I've
changed the aircraft.cfg to that specification. Now I can at least take off with a full fuel-load and not be over MTOW. I doubt that full fuel-
loads are used very often in real life though, as that leaves only about 7.000-8.000 Kg available for passengers and cargo.

I have no idea if the numbers I've posted her are absolute or if they differ between airlines who might have their A330's setup differently,
but I think the numbers are close anyway.
.... Mats





Post Edited ( 07-31-05 22:45 )

[savage]

I've taken the A332 for a example, 2 Class configuration

MAX GW = 606300 LBS

Max FUEL 246531.25 LBS
Payload = 3450 lbs (Crew)

Add it all together, We are a Gross w of 534001 LBS. Far below MTOW. It's all how you load it

[James]

savage wrote:
I've taken the A332 for a example, 2 Class configuration

MAX GW = 606300 LBS

Max FUEL 246531.25 LBS
Payload = 3450 lbs (Crew)

Add it all together, We are a Gross w of 534001 LBS. Far below MTOW. It's all how you load it

Yet I'm still overweight by loads...

[savage]

Perhaps its more a problem of PSS's load editor and FS9 Payload configuration then.

I'm not saying there is a bug though... There definately is (the seatbelt signs in the PSS planes is another). Let's see what PSS say / do

[MatsH]

James: Do you really need all that fuel? You say that you have about 110.000 Kg loaded. I don't have the correct flightplan Dublin - Los
Angeles, but I had FSNav make one for me wich ended up to be 4683 NM, so I calculated with 5000 NM in PSS A330 Fuel Planner. I've
loaded the aircraft with 217 passengers and 20.110 Kg of cargo and got ZFW: 156.433 Kg. The calculated fuel-load by the fuelplanner
was 59.953 Kg. I loaded the plane with 54% fuel (60.384 Kg) and I'm well below MTOW (see picture). Perhaps if you do a flight with a little
less fuel onboard? And I don't think there's any chance of carrying all cargo available at the airport. I think 20 tons is quite good for such a
long flight.

Hope this will help you a bit.
Cheers .... Mats

EDIT: Remember that Max. zero-fuel weight for the A332 is170.070 Kg. With my load I'm at 156 tons so I could add another 14 tons of cargo but that's it. But that would of course require more fuel aswell.





Post Edited ( 08-01-05 19:26 )

[James]

I'm using the load editor from PSS to find my ZFW which I use for the fuel planner. According to the fuel planner I need 100,000kg of fuel for the
flight.
But I'm confused about what Dan said in that no matter what the exact weights are in the PSS load editor, these will be reset and it only follows the
weights of the A330-200 payload which came with FsPassengers, is this correct? If so then I will avoid using the load editor of PSS in future and just
use the FsP payload model instead.