KLM Posky 747-200

[Ceemosp]

It IS healthy if you stay within the limits.
A sideslip properly applied won't put excessive strain on the tailplane as you are actually 'leaning' the whole body of the plane into the
wind. Problematic are erratic manouvres to counter windgusts and turbulences - as supposedly trained by AA in their procedures - where
the frequency of opposing rudder induces amplitudal forces.
The "they don't touch the pedals" may be the case during inflight but for sure it's NOT the case on landing or how do you land an aircraft in
crosswinds without using the rudder ? For coordinated turns during the rest of the flight this as well is also not the case as ANY course
change by autopilot will result in elevator and aileron movements as well as rudder and spoilers. The keyword is co-ordinated - but as
the plane is flown the vast majority of times by the AP it may go unnoticed. The problems with flat spins is existing especially at high
altitudes around cruise speeds where the flight envelope becomes really confined and the margin for errors tiny.

Greetz Carsten

[c210]

This brings up another question. Since I only fly GA aircraft (for real now, not simming) how do you do a coordinated turn in a heavy. Last time I looked, well, not in my PDMG
cockpit there is no ball so how do they do it then? I would guess that you put the FPV in the middle of the PFD but then again ...



Post Edited ( 11-06-06 14:20 )

[Anton]

Ceemosp,

Actually, Ty-154 ops manual is very explicit about rudder use... You turn on the yaw dampfer before takeoff and you are all set. The flight
control system will coordinate your turns for you. As for crosswind landings, Ty-154 drivers do not use rudder, they keep a more or less
constant crab angle and then they might do a little course correction by banking the aircraft. But, since the CG in the Ty-154 is so far
forward of the main gear, the aircraft tends to line up with the runway immediately upon touchdown all by intself. And only then the
pilot applies some pedal. I don't rightly know about the Boeings, and I suspect that the situation is very similar with them as well, but
using the rudder in a Tu-154 can lead to a virtually unrecoverable spin. Like I said, a Tu-154 driver never touches the pedals in flight.

[Ceemosp]

Well....can't argue about the Tuschka - you know better than me

In other aircrafts I have seen Pilots working all axis in nasty crosswind approaches (F27-500, F50, Saab340, A300). I agree that most
work is done with the help of ailerons and elevators but the rudders was used to counter gusts - and in the case of the F27 this was done
in a dramatical way (the scenery was moving left to right and back in the cockpit windows) and the pilot actually had to initiate a go around.
Winds in combination with the $%&@ noise abatement procedures in Schipol can be a handful.

Interesting side facts: This flight was done in the early 90's and it was an ALL LADIES flightdeck in a KLM Cityhopper and one of the girls
was my GF , hence the jump seat

Greetz Carsten

[Joeflyer]

The good ol PMDG 747 does a fantastic job of slowing down...especially with speed brakes activated. That FLCH button works
wonders,too

[Anton]

2 Ceemosp,
Fly PT and read the manual, and you'll find a wealth of knowledge. BTW if you compare the average weight of the aircraft you
mentioned... Tushka, as you know, has a maximum takeoff weight of 102000 kg (for Krasnoyarsk pilots, for the rest its 100000 only)
which means that landing weight should be about 70-80 tons. Not a 747, of course, but a respectable number nontheless... I suppose
you also put extra strain on the tail structure by shoving some pedal, maybe it has something to do with the three engines mounted
there... I'll have to ask. Anyhow, returning somewhat to the main topic of this thread, actual pilots report that the 154M is also a very hard
piece of iron to slow down... and although that they considered the use of spoilers distasteful on descent, they sometimes HAD to use
them There was a guy in Krasnoyarsk branch of Aeroflot, who did the whole descent and approach on idle thrust and only added power
after he entered glideslope. Now that's some awesome descent planning...

OT:
It's so cool to have a pilot GF!!! And I have also visited EHAM in 1995 and 1996, twice, and loved it... except that KLM messed up and we
missed our connectinf flights both times and had to stay overnight )) I was very young back then and so unable to enjoy all the
attractions of Amsterdam, though. We stayed in Golden Tulip hotel... maybe 5 minute drive from the airport. To come to think about it, I
could see 747s on short final through the window of my room, so there was at least one attraction I did not miss