KLM Posky 747-200

[Wally]

Hey all,

I have just recently bought a new 747-200 in KLM livery, since then i have made two flight from Schiphol to Johannesburg Intl. and
Princess Juliana. But here is my question... When ever i start my decent from 32,000 ft i cant seem to get my plane to slow down to
below 250 knts, i put my engines on idle and sometimes even the air brakes on 100%! On my first flight i couldnt get clearence to exeed
250knts below 10,000. I started to freak out a little cos i was just starting to get my pilot to a good level (now at c11), and i did not want to
get penalised for exeeding 250 knts. Anyway i landed really nice, a very smooth touch-down, a little compensation for all the points i was
going to loose, but as i ended the flight, my points were perfect! I didnt even get penalised, well i dont mind, trust me, its a good thing, but
why didnt I? Same thing happened on my second flight... i dont understand!?

just a little curious...

[DBE]

Hey Wally,

1) Could it be that you were monitoring IAS instead of GS (or vice-versa).

2) Could you post your End of Flight report?



Post Edited ( 11-03-06 12:02 )

[Wally]

Flight ID: KL274
Pilot: Allard van Osch
Company: KLM Airlines
Aircraft: KLM 747-200
Flight Date: November 02 2006
Departure: 07h41 (06h41 GMT)
Arrival: 17h30 (16h30 GMT)
From: EHAM - Schiphol - Netherlands
To: FAJS - Johannesburg Intl - South Africa
Nbr of Passengers: 295

Report:

Flight Distance: 4,868 Nm Landing Speed: 140.90 kt
Time Airborne: 09h37:41 Landing Touchdown: -276.92 ft/m (nice)
Flight Time (block): 09h50:09 Landing Pitch: 5.95°
Time On Ground: 00h13:08 Landing Weight: 248618 kg
Average Speed: 505.35 kt Total Fuel Used: 33958 gal
Max. Altitude: FL 320 Fuel Not Used: 19792 gal
Climb Time: 00h16:39 Climb Fuel Used: 2857 gal
Cruise Time: 08h55:51 Cruise Fuel Used: 29902 gal
Average Cruise Speed: 524.32 kt (M0.85) Cruise fuel/hour: 3348 gal (calc)
Descent Time: 00h25:11 Descent Fuel Used: 1199 gal


Passenger Opinion: Exceptional flight (100%)
-Were highly entertained by the movie.
-Were in a better mood because they had food.
-Were irritated because they were hungry sometime during the flight.
-Were pleased by the music on ground. A very nice addition to their flying experience.

Financial Report:

Ticket Income: +$387,394 (4,868 Nm)
Cargo Income: +$49,980 (6800 kg)
Services Income: +$0 (1 sandwich 2 hot food 4 drink)
Services Cost: -$9,379 (100% quality)
Fuel Cost: -$160,408 (33958 gal Jet-A1)
Airport Taxes: -$1,043 (Heavy Aircraft)
Insurance Costs: -$99,979 (6.21% rate)
Total Real Income: $166,565
Total Income: $8,328,250 (real x50)
Fleet Bonus: $664,449 (5 aircraft)
Total Sim Income: $8,992,699 (total income+fleet bonus)

Company Reputation:

Considering that the flight was perfect the ticket price normal, the service price free and the service quality perfect, passengers on this
flight think that your company's reputation should be 100%
Your company reputation is now: 99% (+0.00 increase)


Overall Flight Result: Perfect

Pilot Bonus points: 711 points
You made a very nice landing. (+50)
Perfect Flight, no problems and very satisfied passengers. (+150)
You landed at the scheduled airport. (+30)
Long flight (09h37) without using time acceleration, without any problems and with satisfied passengers. (+481)




Ok... thats the flight report, and here my second question... why didnt my reputation increase? And what is meant by this: 1) Could it be
that you were monitoring IAS instead of GS (or vice-versa).

[Launchbury]

I've flown that beast as well and it's a hard aircraft to slow down!

I have also gone over 250kts without clearance but have not been penalized. I think that to get the penalty, you have to exceed the 250 for
a certain amount of time, or go over 250 by a certain amount. I have taken a hit for going 290kts but never 260kts.

To slow the aircraft, bank in one direction and give it a fair bit of opposite rudder. It will cause you to go into a slip that sheds a lot of
altitude quickly without building speed.

[Wally]

I've had the same thing, not being penalised when doing 260 etc... but at one point i was going well over 300 knts below 10 000... hence
my confusion!

[Ceemosp]

Launchbury wrote:
To slow the aircraft, bank in one direction and give it a fair bit of opposite rudder. It will cause you to go into a slip that sheds a lot of
altitude quickly without building speed.

hehehe...the good ol' sideslip technique - I hear old school piloting

Every pilot should do some landings in a Cub or any taildragger to learn this technique. It will come in handy in certain situations (short
field landing with steep descents) as well.

Very good advice and a nice reminder for me to get some more hours of "fresh-up" training.
Cheers Launchbury!!!

Greetz Carsten

[Launchbury]

Well thank you, sir. I do pride myself in the fact that the only glass in my cockpits is the glass I look through when I'm FLYING AND
LANDING THE AIRCRAFT BY HAND. Hard to believe right?

P.S. I should note that when performing a slip, you'd better keep a good eye on the VSI - it's easy to overdo it and start dropping like a rock - the passenengers don't appreciate it much.

Needless to say, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ6lcivpK_I will never happen to me.



Post Edited ( 11-03-06 21:52 )

[Jetflyer]

Sometimes sounds like a bit of operator headspace to me, regarding the planning of your descent. As a large aircraft with tonnes of momentum it is
especially important to profile your descent properly, and from 32,000ft you should be looking to start your descent around 110nm out from your
destination, and not exceed a descent rate of about 2,000f/m in usual circumstances. These big aircraft are designed to be highly aerodynamically
efficient and don't like to slow down easily - just use the right descent planning techniques and you'll be fine - I've used it on 780 flight so far
in FS2004 - and it always works and doesn't leave you high and dry (or overusing the speedbrakes...etc).

[Ceemosp]

Some friend of mine 'drives' a 757 and it seems controllers know the excellent flight characteristics of this bird as he get's 'slammed'
down regulary at certain airports and that's when your 'flight planning' goes bonkers i s'pose

But you are correct - YOU need to be ahead of the airplane not trying to catch up with what is happening. Anticipating what is going to
happen next is the name of the game

Greetz Carsten

[Wally]

Jetflyer wrote:
Sometimes sounds like a bit of operator headspace to me, regarding the planning of your descent. As a large aircraft with tonnes of
momentum it is
especially important to profile your descent properly, and from 32,000ft you should be looking to start your descent around 110nm out
from your
destination, and not exceed a descent rate of about 2,000f/m in usual circumstances.

I follow ATC instructions and they do ask for me to start my descent from 32, 000 ft aprox 110 nm away from my destination, and i put on a
descent rate of -1700 ft per min, so that cant be it either!!!

BUT

I think i know the answer... as i have competly mis calculated, as you can see from my end of flight report, i had WAY too much fuel for the
flight i was doing... and therefore i was really heavy, which meant i had a lot of potential energy, and therfore was exeeding the 250 knts
limit

Anyway... that might explain that.. but i still dont get why my reputation did not go up from 99% even though the passengers had 100%
satisfactory and believe my compony should have 100% reputation! (once again look at the end of flight report!)

Thnx

[BenG]

SI the penalty for 250kts IAS or GS?

[Dutch64]

IAS

[Ceemosp]

All speeds (if not stated differently) that you'll come across are IAS as not all aircraft have the equipment to determine TAS or GS 'on the fly'
- or rather HAD it as these rules are quite old.

Greetz Carsten

[Anton]

About that sideslip technique described above... Guys, I've heard from very reliable sources that jet drivers don't touch the pedals at all
while in flight. In lighter types you shuffle your feet quite a lot, but not in heavy jets, they say. Easy to induce a flat spin supposedly.

[c210]

Also cannot imagine that slipping a heavy can be that healthy for the tail structure :D

Could have been the extra fuel. My descents are normally at the 2700 fpm range and about 80 - 100nm out from 35K and have no issues with managing the speed.



Post Edited ( 11-06-06 12:36 )