PMDG Crash!

[xvxmatthewxvx]

Ahh, I was doing a flight from VHHH(Hong Kong) to RJTT(Tokyo Haneda) in the PMDG 747 for my airline Cathay Pacific. Yes another
crash topic

Was getting close to the RJTT and turn off the LNAV and VNAV and set heading and speed manually as my vectors from the 5 Star
MSFS2004 ATC were diffrent than my course in the FMC. The FMC recommended 145KTS with 30 degrees flaps. So I do that. I establish
on the localizer and switch on approach for RW24L. (The visability was non-existant)

I also have the LD767 and the autoland is very easy to use. This was my first time using the PMDG 747. Anyways so I am going in
absolutely perfect. I heard "One-Hun-Dred". Things were going well. Then suddenly I hear the deep "Woooh Woooh" sound. (was in spot
view) I know what that means. Autopilot DC. Literally half a second later and I crash.Of 299 people only 64 survived The crash report said
a stall but it happened so fast I can not confirm if that was the reason for the crash. I still am not sure what happened.

Any of you use the PMDG 747 or have experience please tell me.

One of 2 things happened was my guess. I got a stall and the AP autodisconected(I dont know if the PMDG does this). (As I was going
very slowly, but the FMC recommended 145KTS and 30 degrees flaps, so it shouldn't of crashed.)

2) I did not configure the PMDG 747 for autolanding and its normal procedure to disengage the AP when you are at about 100FT from the
runway and THEN I got the stall and crashed.

Heh, anyways just wanted to share and ask anyone who can guess what happened. Here is the report.

Flight ID: CX774
Pilot: Matthew Erwin (RIP)
Company: Cathay Pacific
Aircraft: 747-400 Cathay Pacific Standard
Flight Date: November 03 2005
Departure: 06h07 (23h07 GMT)
Arrival: --
From: VHHH - Hong Kong Intl - Hong Kong
To: RJTT - Tokyo Intl - Japan
Nbr of Passengers: 298

Accident Report:

The aircraft crashed at 11h59 hitting ground at 146 kt with a vert. speed of -933 ft/m.
There were no known failures on this aircraft at the time of the accident.The cause of the crash remains unknown, most probably it was
due to human error. No emergency was declared before the crash.

Casualties:
-298 passengers aboard
-226 killed
-72 injured
-Pilot and flight crew were killed


Report:

Flight Distance: 1,566 Nm Landing Speed: --
Time Airborne: 03h31:48 Landing Touchdown: --
Flight Time (block): 03h38:53 Landing Pitch: --
Time On Ground: 00h07:29 Landing Weight: --
Average Speed: 443.48 kt Total Fuel Used: 95610 lbs
Max. Altitude: FL 370 Fuel Not Used: 47777 lbs
Climb Time: 00h21:53 Climb Fuel Used: 21396 lbs
Cruise Time: 02h37:42 Cruise Fuel Used: 61411 lbs
Average Cruise Speed: 529.66 kt (M0.84) Cruise fuel/hour: 23365 lbs (calc)
Descent Time: 00h32:13 Descent Fuel Used: 12802 lbs


Passenger Opinion: Terror and grief. (0%)
-Were highly entertained by the movie.
-Were in a better mood because they had food.


Crash Financial Report:

Taking into account the state of the aircraft and its current resale value after the crash. The insurance company decided to pay a total of
$98,007,576 which represents 40.38% of the resale value. You can now decide to repair or sell the wreck. The insurance will pay all
other damages. The insurance rate increased by 1.52% and is now 5.84%.
Total Sim Income: $98,007,576

Company Reputation:

Due to the crash, your company reputation is now: 52% (-12.20 decrease)



Overall Flight Result: Crash

Pilot's Penalty points: -1200 points
Crash! You hit the ground with an impact speed of -933 ft/mn. There was no failure aboard this aircraft before the crash and many
passengers died because of pilot error. (-850)
Stalling an aircraft full of passengers is NOT a good idea. (-350)

In memory of the pilot who died these penalty points will not
be recorded in his log and his last rank will be maintained.



Post Edited ( 11-03-05 20:42 )

[Jetflyer]

Why the hell were you in spot view?? That's just a duh duh. Clearly you're not properly in control in that case and can't expect to make a serious
landing.

[xvxmatthewxvx]

I was in spot view because I was expecting an autolanding and it was my first one with the PMDG. I couldn't see the runway from the
cockpit and wanted to make sure I wasn't 100 (as the computer announced) over the water or something. I was planning to stay there for
only a moment but it just happened to happen at that exact minute. Haha I wasn't flying solely on the spot view haha. It was just a quick check.

And it was literally a third of a second after the AP disconnected that I crashed. Even if I was in the cockpit I doubt I could of done anything.



Post Edited ( 11-03-05 21:29 )

[Dutch64]

Matthew, it might indeed be something with the AP switching off but there's still another possibility. Do you use Active Sky? If so, disable the wake
turbulence options in AS. It made me crash often on final approach, just nose dived.... If you don't use AS then my post can be deleted and ritually
burned

[savage]

I noticed similar things in the Queen.

I still need to confirm, but go to your SIDSTAR directory, load the txt file for the airport where you crashed. Have a look whether you have a
APPROACH section, that actually has a configuration in it.

I suspect, that some STARS do not have a APPROACH section (FAJS is one of them - also, where I had the exact same crash). It would
*seem* to me, as if the APPROACH section is a requirement for the autoland to function properly....

My RJTT does have a APPROACH, yours may not. You can get latest SIDSTARs at navdata.at. Alternatively, if you are missing them,
please insert in the appropriate section ot RJTT.txt, and try again

APPROACHES
APPROACH VORDME16L FIX JONAN 2000 SPEED 180 NAVAID KWE RNW 16L
APPROACH VORDME16R FIX JONAN 2000 SPEED 180 NAVAID KWE RNW 16R
APPROACH VORDME22 FIX ASAHI 3000 SPEED 180 FIX LINKS 1000 RNW 22
APPROACH VORDMEB22 FIX ASAHI 3000 SPEED 180 NAVAID KWE RNW 22
APPROACH DILS22 FIX DREAM 2000 SPEED 180 RNW 22
APPROACH DILS34L1 NAVAID KANOH NAVAID KOITO 3000 SPEED 180 FIX MICKY 3000 SPEED 180 FIX HME32 RNW 34L
APPROACH DILS34L3 NAVAID KANOH NAVAID KOITO 4000 SPEED 180 FIX VERSO 4000 FIX HME32 FIX HME02 RNW 34L
APPROACH DILS34L5 NAVAID KANOH NAVAID KOITO FIX LUNAR 4500 SPEED 180 RNW 34L
APPROACH DILS34R2 NAVAID KANOH 3000 SPEED 180 FIX TOMAS 3000 FIX HME03 FIX I34RM FIX I34RI RNW 34R
APPROACH DILS34R4 NAVAID KANOH 4000 SPEED 180 FIX RECTO 4000 FIX HME03 FIX I34RM FIX I34RI RNW 34R
APPROACH DILS34R6 FIX CREST 4500 SPEED 180 RNW 34R
ENDAPPROACHES

[silo]

Or maybe you had a strong headwind that quit and made the aircraft stall? So for example if you were flying at 145 Kts with a headwind of
15 and the wind quit blowing, you would suddendly be flying at 130 and the a/c would stall.

[xvxmatthewxvx]

Dutch I do use active sky. With the normal turbulence on, but not the extended or whatever its called. (Forget the name ) turbulence.

Savage thanks I had the queen for a bit. But this was the first serious flight I did with it. Never landed with it before. But I only recently (about a day ago) learned how to fly these more advanced aircraft. (Level-D,
PMDG) I think I am learning quick. I have already downloaded the latest from navdata (was yesterday I think).

I am guessing it was what silo said. One-Forty-Something is very very slow for a aircraft so heavy (it was pretty loaded before I left). I am
guessing it was wind infront of me. And (if PMDG is really based off of real life) it makes sense to for the AP to turn off automatically if the
aircraft goes into a stall. You wouldn't want the AP to continue pulling up it will just worsen the stall. Well, for just a day or so of seriously
learning to fly these planes, I just learned another thing. I am sure it was a headwind.

Also before the landing I was a bit distracted........ trying to find the place to enter NAV and change course in the PMDG 747. I finally found
it....... but can't remember where it is now again. Lol. So perhaps thats why I didn't notice the wind.

Even if I was in cockpit mode at the time of the stall. At a hundred feet it wouldn't of made any diffrence anyways I am sure. If the plane
was indeed in autoland and I was going at the bring of stall speed with a wind infront of me, makes sense where I got the stall too. The
plane was probably pitching up a tiny bit in preparation for the land and that was its doom at such a slow speed with wind.

I could of went to the PMDG forum, and probably should of, but you guys are the nicest.

So I pretty much solved this. Thanks everyone!



Post Edited ( 11-04-05 06:57 )

[jboweruk]

If you'd been in the cockpit watching the gauges though you would've seen the stall coming before it occurred. That's why we have
cockpit mode.

[Skyscraper]

I use the F1View-thing to zoom around when I'm in spot view mode. It has happened a lot of times that, when I use the mouse scroll
wheel to zoom in or out, that by mistake, whit the zooming I change the speed, the heading or other things too. I always wondered why the
plane starts behaving strange all of a sudden until I found out, why:

This happens every time when the mouse is over a gauge while zooming. So if you use the same F1View-thing (dunno the exact name of
it) make sure you put your mouse away from any instruments, change view and only then use your mouse wheel.