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+--- Thread: 747-400 FS Default Plane Belly Landing Crash? (/showthread.php?tid=9554)
747-400 FS Default Plane Belly Landing Crash? - JonathanFenton - 10-02-2016
Hi,
So was approaching KLAS and on final went to put gear down and noticed it wasn't coming down, cheating and went to outside view and low and
behold no gear! So i try the lever again and the co-pilot then announced that "the gears partially down". So i looked outside and it wasn't the gear
doors weren't even open. So I left leaver in the up position and declared an emergency. Proceeded to belly land, came down slow and gradual, touched
down very gentle and skidded for around 200 feet then it decides that ive crashed? No flipping no nothing just sliding down as you would with a belly
landing and then halt crash. So infuriating! I've included my Flight Report below so you can see the bit where it says "The aircraft hit ground at 132
kt with a vertical speed of -176 ft/m".
Flight JFC352 End of flight report Date February 09 2016
Flight ID: JFC352
Flight Type: Normal
Pilot: Jonathan E Fenton
Company: JFC Airways
Aircraft: Boeing 747-400 Paint1
Flight Date: February 09 2016
Departure: 11h03 (18h04 GMT)
Arrival: --
From: KBJC - Jeffco - United States
To: ----
Nbr of Passengers: 351
Accident Report:
The aircraft crashed at 11h29 hitting ground at 132 kt with a vert. speed of -176 ft/m.
According to the black-box we deduce the following: The gear didn't extend properly. This was probably the root cause of the crash. The Captain has
declared an emergency before the crash.
Casualties:
-351 passengers aboard
179 killed
140 injured
-Pilot and flight crew injured
Report:
Flight Distance: 525 Nm Landing Speed: --
Time Airborne: 01h18:22 Landing Touchdown: --
Flight Time (block): 01h24:55 Landing Pitch: --
Time On Ground: 00h07:54 Landing Weight: --
Average Speed: 402.73 kt Total Fuel Used: 30234 lbs
Climb Time: 00h07:40 Climb Fuel Used: 8829 lbs
Cruise Time: 00h53:10 Cruise Fuel Used: 18704 lbs
Average Cruise Speed: 453.94 kt (M0.71) Cruise fuel/hour: 21108 lbs (calc)
Descent Time: 00h17:32 Descent Fuel Used: 2700 lbs
Passenger Opinion: Terror and grief. (0%)
-Were in a better mood because they had food.
-Were pleased by the music on ground. A very nice addition to their flying experience.
-Were terrified because of the problem during flight.
Crash Financial Report:
Taking into account the state of the aircraft and its current resale value after the crash. The insurance company decided to pay a total of
$53,380,544 which represents 27.10% of the resale value. You can now decide to repair or sell the wreck. The insurance will pay all other damages. The
insurance rate increased by 1.02% and is now 10.48%.
Total Sim Income: $53,380,544
Company Reputation:
Due to the crash, your company reputation is now: 80% (-10.00 decrease)
Overall Flight Result: Crash
Pilot Bonus points: 150 points
There was a problem aboard and you declared an emergency. (+150)
Pilot's Penalty points: -1000 points
The aircraft hit ground at 132 kt with a vertical speed of -176 ft/m. There was a serious failure aboard before the crash, but you are trained to deal
with these situations. You did not perform very well here. (-400)
Exceeding maximum speed of this aircraft is very dangerous. (-600)
( Yes i know i over sped, i was cruising at 25,000 at 340kts when my speed jumped upto 365, probably an updraft or some FSX weather bug.)
So im really intrigued to find out if i did anything wrong or there was just a bug at KLAS that caused FS to not like belly landings.
Re: 747-400 FS Default Plane Belly Landing Crash? - JonathanFenton - 10-02-2016
I've re simulated this a few more times, and what I can determine is that i simply sink into the runway, Its like there isn't any contact points on
the default 747 which makes it then sink into the ground. When I get to about top of the wings deep it then decides i've crashed!
So i'm presuming that this is a bug in the default 747?
Re: 747-400 FS Default Plane Belly Landing Crash? - SamTDS - 10-02-2016
Quote:JonathanFenton wrote:Try it with keeping the gear leaver DOWN.
I've re simulated this a few more times, and what I can determine is that i simply sink into the runway, Its like there isn't any contact points on
the default 747 which makes it then sink into the ground. When I get to about top of the wings deep it then decides i've crashed!
So i'm presuming that this is a bug in the default 747?
Re: 747-400 FS Default Plane Belly Landing Crash? - JonathanFenton - 10-02-2016
Setup a test flight and repeated and changed runways etc stick up/down. It appears the default 747 on FSX cannot be belly landed it just sinks into
the ground, Very annoying. Especially after a few hour flight. Will try another airport but im not holding out any hope.
Re: 747-400 FS Default Plane Belly Landing Crash? - JonathanFenton - 10-02-2016
So I had a look at the contact points
point.0 = 1, -25.0, 0.0, -17.5, 1000.0, 0, 2.0, 70.0, 0.5, 3.5, 0.900, 9.0, 8.0, 0, 220, 250 ) Wheel
point.1 = 1, -114.0, -18.0, -21.3, 2000.0, 1, 2.0, 13.0, 3.0, 2.5, 0.900, 11.0, 9.0, 2, 220, 250 ) Wheel
point.2 = 1, -114.0, 18.0, -21.3, 2000.0, 2, 2.0, 13.0, 3.0, 2.5, 0.900, 11.0, 9.0, 3, 220, 250 ) Wheel
point.3 = 2, -152.6, -103.5, 3.0, 700.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0, 0 )
point.4 = 2, -152.6, 103.5, 3.0, 700.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 6, 0, 0 )
point.5 = 2, 3.0, 0.0, 0.0, 700.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 9, 0, 0 )
point.6 = 2, -222.7, 0.0, 4.0, 700.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0, 0 )
So the first 3 are wheels as = 1 is a wheel.
The last 4 are the scrapes as they are a =2
The rest of it im struggling with.
I Found a helpfull article as you can see below its not pasted very well:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/cc526949.aspx#mozTocId836373
Contact Point Parameter (and example) Element Description
1 (1) Class Integer defining the type of contact point: 0 = None, 1 = Wheel, 2 = Scrape, 3 = Skid, 4 = Float, 5 = Water Rudder
2 (-18.0) Longitudinal Position The longitudinal distance of the point from the datum reference point.
3 (0) Lateral Position The lateral distance of the point from the datum reference point.
4 (-3.35) Vertical Position The vertical distance of the point from the datum reference point.
5 (3200) Impact Damage Threshold The speed at which an impact with the ground can cause damage (feet/min).
6 (0) Brake Map Defines which brake input drives the brake (wheels only).
0 = None, 1 = Left Brake, 2 = Right Brake.
7 (0.50) Wheel Radius Radius of the wheel (feet).
8 (180) Steering Angle The maximum angle (positive and negative) that a wheel can pivot (degrees).
9 (0.25) Static Compression This is the distance a landing gear is compressed when the empty aircraft is at rest on the ground (feet). This term
defines the “strength” of the strut, where a smaller number will increase the “stiffness” of the strut.
10 (2.5) Ratio of Maximum Compression to Static Compression Ratio of the max dynamic compression available in the strut to the static value. Can be
useful in coordinating the “compression” of the strut when landing.
11 (0.90) Damping Ratio This ratio describes how well the ground reaction oscillations are damped. A value of 1.0 is considered critically damped,
meaning there will be little or no osciallation. A damping ratio of 0.0 is considered undamped, meaning that the oscillations will continue with a
constant magnitude. Negative values result in an unstable ground handling situation, and values greater than 1.0 might also cause instabilities by
being “over” damped. Typical values range from 0.6 to 0.95.
12 (1.0) Extension Time The amount of time it takes the landing gear to fully extend under normal conditions (seconds). A value of zero indicates a
fixed gear.
13 (4.0) Retraction Time The amount of time it takes the landing gear to fully retract under normal conditions (seconds). A value of zero indicates
a fixed gear.
14 (0) Sound Type This integer value will map a point to a type of sound:
0 = Center Gear,
1 = Auxiliary Gear,
2 = Left Gear,
3 = Right Gear,
4 = Fuselage Scrape,
5 = Left Wing Scrape,
6 = Right Wing Scrape,
7 = Aux1 Scrape,
8 = Aux2 Scrape,
9 = Tail Scrape.
15 (0) Airspeed Limit This is the speed at which landing gear extension becomes inhibited (knots). Not used for scrape points or non-retractable gear.
16 (200) Damage from Airspeed The speed above which the landing gear accrues damage (knots). Not used for scrape points or non-retractable gear.
Any help with editing these would be greatly appreciated. I think I need to be able to work out where the Longitudinal and latitudinal point of the
plane is and add some collision points in so the plane skids on these instead of sinking into the ground.
Re: 747-400 FS Default Plane Belly Landing Crash? - JonathanFenton - 10-02-2016
OK so i've managed to sort it.
I have had to set up 8 points as floats. It doesnt work still if i use skid, but you still get sparks etc. When you ditch now it floats, and when you
land on concrete it sparks and mud it kicks up mud. Only thing i cant work out is how to ensure it damages your engines. But thats by the by at least
you can make your heroic landing now. I've set the contact points along the body and half way up engine 2 and 3 so the aircraft scrapes along half way
up the engines and the body sits on the floor. I'll share for those struggling:
point.0= 1, -25.000, 0.000, -17.500, 1000, 0, 2.000, 70.000, 0.500, 3.500, 0.900, 9.000, 8.000, 0, 219.9, 250.3
point.1= 1, -114.000, -18.000, -19.000, 2000, 1, 2.000, 13.000, 3.000, 2.500, 0.900, 11.000, 9.000, 2, 219.9, 250.3
point.2= 1, -114.000, 18.000, -19.000, 2000, 2, 2.000, 13.000, 3.000, 2.500, 0.900, 11.000, 9.000, 3, 219.9, 250.3
point.3= 4, -150.100, -6.500, -7.900, 5600, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 12.500, 1.150, 0.000, 0.000, 4
point.4= 4, -150.100, 6.500, -7.900, 5600, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 12.500, 1.150, 0.000, 0.000, 4
point.5= 4, -80.000, -7.000, -11.000, 5600, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 12.500, 1.150, 0.000, 0.000, 4
point.6= 4, -80.000, 7.000, -11.000, 5600, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 12.500, 1.150, 0.000, 0.000, 4
point.7= 4, -20.000, -4.000, -8.000, 5600, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 12.500, 1.150, 0.000, 0.000, 4
point.8= 4, -20.000, 4.000, -8.000, 5600, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 12.500, 1.150, 0.000, 0.000, 4
point.9= 4, -80.000, 44.000, -11.000, 5600, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 12.500, 1.150, 0.000, 0.000, 6
point.10= 4, -80.000, -44.000, -11.000, 5600, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 12.500, 1.150, 0.000, 0.000, 5
point.11= 2, -200.000, 0.000, 1.000, 1000, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 9
8) enjoy!