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+--- Thread: Light Penalty (/showthread.php?tid=4790)
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Light Penalty - timcook - 21-07-2005
I'm sorry, but I still can't seem to fly without getting a light “landing light” penalty.
Starting from the parking ramp, with the engines running and the landing light off, could you please explain the correct location for
switching on the landing lights?
Many thanks,
Tim
Re: Light Penalty - Japo32 - 21-07-2005
The same happens to me. I have switched them before the line of the runaway, after, on the runaway.. at the landing on the runaway
swiched them off, cleared the runnaway.. and ALWAYS the same. Light penalty.
It says.. "Is not good to have the landing lights on, when you are on the parking area" or in the platform also y I remember well. They never
where on there.
Re: Light Penalty - nem - 21-07-2005
Hmm. I switch on the LL pretty much whenever I feel like it - i.e. someonewhere between leaving the TWY and entering the RWY. No problems so far.
Just to make sure that we're talking on the same basis here, lemme recap the lights policies:
At gate/ramp: Nav lights on (they're always on), all others off.
Immediately before engine start (usually on pushback): Beacon on
On taxiway: taxi lights on (also at daytime, but not when still facing the gate/terminal, don't blind the ground crew
)When entering RWY: LL on and Strobe on (question to real world pilots: are the taxi lights left on?)
When climbing 10000': LL (and taxi ligths?) off
When descending 10000': LL (and taxi lights?) on
When leaving RWY: LL and strobe off
On engine shutdown: Beacon off
Re: Light Penalty - AltairZQ - 21-07-2005
I don't think taxi lights are left on after leaving the taxiway.
BTW when do you turn NAV lights OFF?
Re: Light Penalty - olseric - 21-07-2005
NAV lights should really not be on until the aircraft moves. So, on at pushback, off on the blocks.
Re: Light Penalty - nem - 21-07-2005
Quote:NAV lights should really not be on until the aircraft moves. So, on at pushback, off on the blocks.Then a million checklists I've seen are wrong. And the FSP doc as well.
Re: Light Penalty - timcook - 21-07-2005
Quote:nem wrote:
Hmm. I switch on the LL pretty much whenever I feel like it - i.e. someonewhere between leaving the TWY and entering the RWY. No
problems so far.
Just to make sure that we're talking on the same basis here, lemme recap the lights policies:
At gate/ramp: Nav lights on (they're always on), all others off.
Immediately before engine start (usually on pushback): Beacon on
On taxiway: taxi lights on (also at daytime, but not when still facing the gate/terminal, don't blind the ground crew
When entering RWY: LL on and Strobe on (question to real world pilots: are the taxi lights left on?)
When climbing 10000': LL (and taxi ligths?) off
When descending 10000': LL (and taxi lights?) on
When leaving RWY: LL and strobe off
On engine shutdown: Beacon off
nem
Going through your list, I can confirm:
1. At gate/ramp: Nav lights on (they're always on), all others off. YES
2. Immediately before engine start (usually on pushback): Beacon on. YES
3. On taxiway: taxi lights on (also at daytime, but not when still facing the gate/terminal, don't blind the ground crew . I don't have taxi
lights, so this doesn't apply in my case.
4. When entering RWY: LL on and Strobe on. Do you mean when you are actually on the runway, or when you at the stop line? I've tried
both and I get the penalty in both cases.
5. When climbing 10000': LL (and taxi ligths?) off. YES ... but what do you do if you never reach 10,000 ft? Is this when my penalty is
occurring?
6. When descending 10000': LL (and taxi lights?) on. See point 5 above.
7. When leaving RWY: LL and strobe off. YES
8. On engine shutdown: Beacon off. YES
Just to reiterate - I only get penalty points for landing lights and strobes, and I'm fairly sure from the wording of the penalty that it's on take
off and not landing.
Thanks for your help,
Tim
Re: Light Penalty - olseric - 21-07-2005
Let me rephrase that then.
I do not turn them on until I move the aircraft and have yet to be penalized by FSPAX for it under realisitic light penalty.
This is the only reference from the FAA that I can find:
Quote:Sec. 91.209 - Aircraft lights.
No person may:
(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise (or, in Alaska, during the period a prominent unlighted object cannot be seen from a
distance of 3 statute miles or the sun is more than 6 degrees below the horizon) --
(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights;
(2) Park or move an aircraft in, or in dangerous proximity to, a night flight operations area of an airport unless the aircraft --
(i) Is clearly illuminated;
(ii) Has lighted position lights; or
(iii) is in an area that is marked by obstruction lights;
(3) Anchor an aircraft unless the aircraft --
(i) Has lighted anchor lights; or
(ii) Is in an area where anchor lights are not required on vessels; or
(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the
anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the
interest of safety to turn the lights off.
Re: Light Penalty - olseric - 21-07-2005
UPDATE
Interestingly enough...http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/Handlingnotes/dl/747400operation.pdf...has a
Boeing 747-400 Checklist which appears to be an abridged version from Boeing. It does not address the use of NAV lights at all and
furthermore suggests activating the strobes on startup after pushback.
Re: Light Penalty - nem - 21-07-2005
Interesting stuff. I'd say that in some cases nav lights are used isntead of the anticollision lights mentioned in (b) which would explain why many
seem use them at daytime as well.
Well, maybe it's up to region/airline, maybe a real world pilot could clarify this... I don't know.
@Tim:
3. I think FSP doesn't monitor taxi lights anyway. Which is good, because they are pretty often used as needed, turned off when waiting at a holding
point, etc.
4. When entering. The holding point ist still taxiway AFAIK.
5. You leave them on.
6. See 5.
HTH
Re: Light Penalty - smartboy4 - 21-07-2005
I have the penalty even though i followed everything though.
I've yet to try out this but i think it's likely the cause.
In FsP quick start, i think it says we have to turn on landing lights and strobes during taxi. Okay you do it but please do so only when you're
taxiing halfway.
If you on them too early, the game thinks you're still on gate and you get penalty for having landing lights on at the gate.
After landing, before you even make any turns into the taxiways, i suggest you turn landing lights and strobes off first.
Try it.
Re: Light Penalty - nem - 21-07-2005
I don't know about the demo flight, but so far I've always turned on LL and strobes when turning from the taxiway onto the runway, and turned them off
when turning off from the runway - never had any penalties so far.
Having to turn on the LL and strobe while still taxiing would be very far from being realistic...
Re: Light Penalty - SWAFO - 21-07-2005
I didn't read all the messages in this post, however due to volume of messages about a fairly non-complex issue, perhaps you could
simply switch the light penalty off? This is what I have done, as my airline turns off the LL at FL180.
Re: Light Penalty - nem - 21-07-2005
Since you didn't read all the messages lemme quote myself in hopes for an answer to a quite unimportant question.
Quote:When entering RWY: LL on and Strobe on (question to real world pilots: are the taxi lights left on?)
Re: Light Penalty - SWAFO - 21-07-2005
Normally, we'll only turn the landing lights, strobes, and possibly the runway turnoff lights on when we're cleared for takeoff. This way, the
tower and other aircraft clearly know what everyone is doing. If there's an aircraft on close final, and see's a 747 entering the runway with
his strobes on, he know's he's in trouble and needs to go-around. It's a simple, yet helpful practice.
The taxi lights are operated at the pilot's discretion. Some like to keep them on during the takeoff, others will turn them off before takeoff.
Normally, I'll keep the taxi lights on until the after takeoff checklist is complete. On the descent, when passing FL180 I'll flip on the landing
and taxi lights (and runway turnoff if it's night time). During a night time takeoff, I'll use the landing, RT, and taxi lights, and flip the taxi
lights off after takeoff, and the LL and RT off at FL180.
Hope this answers your question.