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+--- Thread: Doors Again (/showthread.php?tid=2386)
Doors Again - opherben - 11-10-2006
Hi, in my last post I raised a problem and got a solution for FSP recognizing PMDG B744 passenger door position, now a different issue:
I approach flight professionally, if FSP isn't really suitable for this, please advise so. I'm cruising with 300 passengers at mach 0.8 FL400
when a cabin door somehow opens, the crew advising quickly that they cannot close it. I establish an immediate emergency descent with
the gear and spoilers extended to reach 10,000 feet ASAP, call Mayday, and since over water, fly 30 minutes to the original destination
located by the nearest shore. FSP renders the landing gear broken, I start the APU, try secondary gear lowering, empty fuel and make a
smooth belly landing with engines shut down above TDZ , then stop and open the cabin doors.
I got punished by FSP for:
a. Hairy descent scaring passengers.
b. Not landing within 20 minutes with injured passengers.
c. Opening a cabin door in flight.
My comments:
1. a. and b. are erroneous, I reacted optimally and in a timely manner to the situation.
2. c. If the FA took over cabin door control and was the last to close it, why is the pilot sitting in the cockpit away from the door opening
control, penalised for a door locking failure?
3. What value does FSP take for a B763 gear extended speed limit ? Actual is 270KIAS/m0.82. Even when slightly (15%) exceeded, the
gear doors might bend slightly ,but the gear itself wouldn't collapse.
Your commets would be appreciated, thanks.
Re: Doors Again - Ceemosp - 11-10-2006
If you opoened a door inflight at the altitude you will be VERY lucky to have a plane to land with !!!
I don't even WANT to imagine the consequences of such action !!!!
To your comments:
The only time I ever had an open door inflight was when >>I<< opened the door inflight due to my fast unccordinated fingers
(pressing the keys ctrl+shift+E). I NEVER had a door opening itself so I strongly assume it's not a built in fault but a user error. For that
reason I don't think a correct "procedure" is programmed into FSP (correct me if I am wrong, Dan) as I can't remember a specific
procedure for opening doors inflight in ANY operations manual - only procedures for depressurization in general.
In that respect your actions were correct but you STILL will get penalized (YOU opened the door and thus were the cause for the
emergency).
The penalty for NOT landing within 20 minutes is correctly applied (althought you unfortunately had no other option) as in a real flight
passengers may have died due to untreated injuries, hyperthermia, lack of oxigene.
As certain functions can't be programmed to suit any and all possible scenarios, one has to compromise and I guess the 20 minutes
rule is such. If you wanted a 100% realistic simulation in this matter, you would need a flight instructor sitting behind you judging your
actions (as in prof. simulators).
To your question about penalizing the pilot: YOU are the one who flies the aircraft and NOT the FA. Now, if Dan ever integrates a virtual
cabin crew you will be able to fire her then
The values FSP uses for all overspeeds are the values that it finds in the appropriates aircraft cfg file under the respective max/damage
speeds for flaps, gears etc.
You may want to check those values and if they are far off correct them accordingly.
Hope this clarifies some questions
Greetz Carsten
P.s. The "real world altitude to descent to would be below 12.000ft
Re: Doors Again - BenG - 11-10-2006
I've had that happen to me a few times - always been my fault. (Fingers moving too fast)
Quote:P.s. The "real world altitude to descent to would be below 12.000ft
I thought it was 10,000 ft (at least here in the UK) - from skydiving I know un-pressurised a/c (i.e. every skydiving aircraft can go above
10,000 if it can maintain a certain climb rate.
Re: Doors Again - Ceemosp - 12-10-2006
I'm utterly amazed !! I was in the strong believe that the "safe altitude" was a set value IRL but astonishingly this seem NOT to be the case !
Whereas for example Douglas and Boeing planes are referring to altitudes above 14.000ft for requirement for oxigene, Airbus has a cabin
altitude after failure off pressurization of 15.000ft (FAR Certificate) and Saab speak about 12.000ft
Interesting numbers were on the Airbus pages referring to the maximum time w/o oxigene at altitude.
20,000ft All unacclimatized persons
lose useful consciousness
within 10 minutes
25,000ft Useful consciousness is lost
after 2.5 minutes or less
30,000ft TUC: approx. 30 seconds
37,000ft TUC: approx. 18 seconds
45,000ft TUC: approx.15 seconds
40.000 ft would thus give paxes about 16 seconds before they pass out....holy makerel not too much time !!!!!!!!!
Re: Doors Again - opherben - 12-10-2006
When I talk about pilot and responsibility, it's with qualifications. Suffice to say that NASA selected me in 1976 for their first orbitter
Enterprise reentry experimental flights, without me even being Americam. I assume they knew why.
Could the door have been open by FSP? I had a squadron commander who thought that a student who landed solo with below
minimum fuel should be punished regardless of the circumstances. Some ideas I read here with which I disagree about aviation and
flight, reminded me of him. I could have simply landed on the wrong planet.
Re: Doors Again - Dutch64 - 12-10-2006
Don't know about the astronaut story but a door being opened during flight is for sure no fsp triggered event. It happens to all of us so now and
them, accidentally hitting the E key with any combination of control and/or shift keys.
About the gear limits, they are usually in the aircraft.cfg, in the contact points section (not always though, depending on addon).
Re: Doors Again - Ceemosp - 13-10-2006
Quote:Don't know about the astronaut story
rofl...I was about to say we ALL make mistakes...EVEN the NASA
Greetz Carsten