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+--- Thread: A question to Brad... (/showthread.php?tid=12051)
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A question to Brad... - omarza - 23-08-2005
I hope you dont mind me asking but would appreciate your assistance as I know ill get a very practical answer from you.
I'm currently flying the B727-100 in FS2004. I dont have a problem with the aircraft itself as well as interpreting the Performance Charts etc but im
not totally comfortable with the climb and decend phases of the flight. I read up a bit before doing my first flight as I try to do things the right
way... stopping one from learning bad habits. I know you fly the 737 but think basic principals might apply to both.
Question One
After takeoff... would you start accelerationg to 250knots immediatly (after flap retraction etc - clean configuration) till 10,000 feet (MSL) before
then accelerating to climb speed of 310 knots (727)
OR
would you climb to 3000 feet (AGL) using Min. Speed Zero Flap +10 knots... then accelrate to 250 knots to 10000 feet (MSL) before continuing to climb
out at climb speed of 310 knots
OR
do something different.
Question Two
During the decend... when approaching 10,000 feet at which point exactly would you decide to slow down to 250 knots. Atm i start slowing down around 12,000 feet by slowly extending speedbrakes.
Question three
Three methods on the 727 are acceptable to assist in slowing down according to the manual... speedbrakes, flaps and gear... speedbrake and flaps
together is not advisable... what I do is to use my speedbrakes (not exceeding 40%) then set speedbrakes back to 0% and put down 2 degree flaps... and
somehow it doesnt feel right to me... what would you advise?
As you probably can see im not very familiar with the bigger aircraft and would like to understand them a bit better... not just fly the in FS from
point A to B.
Post Edited ( 08-23-05 17:37 )
Re: A question to Brad... - SWAFO - 23-08-2005
I'll answer your questions the best I can... I hope my answers help:
1. After takeoff, we climb at V2+20 knots to 1000' AAE where we then commence our initial flap retraction. Normal takeoff in the 737 is
Flaps 5, so we'll retract to Flaps 1 at 1000' AAE. After this, we'll lower the nose to approximately 10 degrees, and commence further
acceleration to retract the flaps on schedule. If the speed restriction has been lifted, we'll accelerate to climb speed ASAP. If the speed
restriction is in place, we'll maintain 250KIAS or less until passing 10,000'.
2. We start to slow down at approximately 14,000ft. Cutting the throttles to idle, and maintaing a descent rate of -1500 to -2000FPM will
usually have us crossing 10,000' at 250KIAS if we initiate the slowing down process at 14,000'. Occasionally, we'll be cleared above
250KIAS below 10,000ft if we were given an early descent, need to re-route, or travel longer distances at an altitude under 10,000ft. It's
pretty rare to exceed this speed below 10,000', as you are setting up for the approach, and usually 250KIAS is even too fast.
3. I can't comment on the 727, however in the 737 our primary method of slowing down is reducing engine thrust, reducing rate of
descent (if descending), and using the spoilers if necessary (if the previous two methods are unsucessful, or are impractical given the
current conditons. If we need to bleed a lot of speed, we'll use all 3 methods). The flaps CAN be used to slow down, however it's not
recommended to use them as speedbrakes. Also, as you mentioned having both the flaps and spoilers deployed at the same time is a
bad idea. It has the possibility of significantly limiting the amount of lift the wings are producing, possibly causing a loss of lift (i.e. stall).
Normally, I'll use the flaps to slow down when I'm on approach (however I'm not using them as speedbrakes... just using them in the way
they're recommended to be used). Also, if we need to bleed ALOT of speed FAST, and we're below 280KIAS, we can go ahead and drop
the gear. Normally this is done when a high rate of descent was required prior to intercepting the GS, and all of a sudden we're travelling
250 KIAS with 17NM to touchdown on a straight-in approach. At this speed, we can have 5 degrees of flaps deployed, however we can't
deploy 15 degrees of flaps and drop the gear (normally 15 degrees of flaps, and the gear are activated at the same time). In this
situation, we'll lower the gear, and once passing the flaps 15 deployment speed, we'll deploy flaps 15. Note that under normal
situations, you wouldn't use the gear as the primary method of slowing down.
Hope I answered all your questions.
Re: A question to Brad... - nem - 23-08-2005
If it helps any (since I fly the 727 quite a bit
) I use speed brake alone to slow down to 245 at 10000' (and below on further descent). About 15-10nm from the airport I lower the gear as well (sometimes earlier, I don't like to do it that early but I feel it's the best way to slow down the 727).
Flaps I add only when I'm pretty sure that the speed brake won't be used anymore, normally at the start of the final approach.
The 727 is quite different to slow down than a 737, I think.
Re: A question to Brad... - omarza - 23-08-2005
Brad... Thanks alot for the thorough answer... appreciate it. I will definately change my climb and decent procedures to match yours... tweaking slightly
for the 727.
I didnt mention that I reduced thrust (approx 55% N1) on my decent (approaching the 10,000 feet) and changed pitch slightly as well. What made me
extremelty uncomfortable was not knowing if I did the right thing to use the speedbrakes and then switch to flaps (wrongly)... I kept the option of
gear as my 3rd option (wrongly) and my method not as thorough... I think instinct told me im doing something wrong and therefore felt uncomfortable.
I'll also start around 14,000 feet as well as I can see that I'll get penalized heavilly when I start using it with FsP. Now I'll be able to apply
the right procedures with comfort.. thanks.
Hope I dont bore you but a quick history / background of me... and maybe some interesting stuff... or on the other hand maybe very boring stuff..
I grew up in an aviation family... my father (Highly qualified, GR1 Instructor etc) had his own aircraft import/export company ... I learnt to fly in
a piper tripacer and flew alot of single, multi engine aircraft (piston) as I had great opportunities unlike most. Believe it or not... I could fly
before I could drive BUT never got my licence... always told my father ill get my licence later as I always flew with him and there was no rush. All
changed in 1982 when my father was killed in a mid-air... I was in my final year at school. A Merlin flew into his Piper Navajo from behind... the
pilot of the Merlin was faulted 7 times during that flight in the accident investigation... Pilot of the Navajo couldnt be faulted in any way. But so
changed my career of aviation into something slightly different. I now develop systems (my own IT company) for aviation for a couple of countries
aviation authorities (SA, Namibia, Zim)... with our main systems running being the Pilot Licencing, Accident/Incident and Aircrew Examination being
used for CP, IR, ATP, Instructors... content for examinations etc of course comes from my friend... very knowledgable... ATPL Aeroplane and CPL
Helicopter etc... he also used to calibrate most of the ILS approaches in southern parts of Africa. I also have alot of other friends connected in
aviation... one btw is also a pilot on 737's for SAA... another were a pilot for SWISS Air but is back in SA... and i'm the odd one out...
Another one of my friends died in a DC3 accident... he was the captain on the flight. They were a couple of hours behind schedule as the aircraft was
in for maintenance and also had an full power check on the engines by the maintenance engineers. Apparently on the DC3 you have to trim up all the
way to keep the tail on the ground during the full power test.. The DC3 was signed off and behind schedule they went... and maybe because they were
in a hurry or for whatever reason they slipped up and failed to check the trim before take-off. DC3 took of and shot into their air 1/3 way down the
runway... stalled and crashed. He was killed but luckilly the co-pilot survived.
Anycase thats my rough background... and therefore with times I might have a good knowledge on certain topics (areas) and at other times I might be
clueless... and sometimes I have just enough knowledge for it to be dangerous
I also know enough people in aviation industry to know when someone knows what they are talking about and when to be careful about what
one says... and as a compliment I could see from day one from your posts that you are very knowledgable and I might pop a question every now and then if its ok.
Otto
Post Edited ( 08-23-05 21:09 )
Re: A question to Brad... - omarza - 23-08-2005
Quote:nem wrote:
If it helps any (since I fly the 727 quite a bit
nm from the airport I lower the gear as well (sometimes earlier, I don't like to do it that early but I feel it's the best way to slow down the 727).
Flaps I add only when I'm pretty sure that the speed brake won't be used anymore, normally at the start of the final approach.
The 727 is quite different to slow down than a 737, I think.
Thanks nem... it will help... and yes you might be right in it being a bit different as well... not much tho... by any chance its the DreamFleet 727... as I love it
Post Edited ( 08-23-05 21:05 )
Re: A question to Brad... - Jetflyer - 23-08-2005
Nah, fly the CAPTAIN SIM 727. Now that's man's stuff. Land it first time and you're a genius. Seriously
Re: A question to Brad... - nem - 23-08-2005
omarza: Yep, Dreamfleet. The better payware 727.
(No offense jetflyer. IMO the CS727 was the best of the best when it came out for fs2002, but times are changing.
)
Re: A question to Brad... - omarza - 24-08-2005
nem... So far I love the DreamFleet B727... starting to become my favourite.
I'm getting the PMDG 737 and PMDG 747 at the end of this month. One thing I was wondering about... I see there is also the PMDG 737 NG... should I
get both 737's or will the one be ok... what would those using the PMDG 737 recommend. Oh and before I forget... I am also planning to get fs2crew
for the PMDG 737... saw brad recommend it in some other post... but just want to confirm that it will work with either PMDG 737 version as well.
Thanks in advance.
Re: A question to Brad... - SWAFO - 24-08-2005
Otto,
PMDG only makes the 737 NG. They have the base version (the -6/700), as well as an update (the -8/900) available. Even if you are
going to fly the -6/700, I recommend the -8/900 update. It adds a lot to ALL panels. There is also a FS2Crew version available for both
PMDG models. I use FSP, FS2Crew, and the PMDG 737... great combo if you ask me!
Thanks for the background info on yourself. It's nice to get a general idea of who I'm talking to on the other end.
Let me know when you get the PMDG aircraft! I'm sure you'll have some questions!
Re: A question to Brad... - omarza - 25-08-2005
Quote:Thanks for the background info on yourself. It's nice to get a general idea of who I'm talking to on the other end.I just thought we all know who you are and thought it might be good to also let you know a bit about myself.
Quote:Let me know when you get the PMDG aircraft! I'm sure you'll have some questions!Thanks again... cant wait for the PMDG 737... and I am also sure ill have alot of questions... and I thought the other night I hope that most of
your lengthy informative answers to people will not go lost at some point... meaning its all over and therefore the 'ask the pilot' forum idea you
mentioned.. but was thinking maybe they all should move there once that forums starts... you probably also thought about that one.
Re: A question to Brad... - SWAFO - 25-08-2005
I'd love to see the "Ask the Pilot" forum. I know there's a few other pilots on here (a couple GA pilots for sure... not to sure about any other
commercial pilots). I feel that forum would be a great place for people that are looking for answers regarding real world aviation (as well
as how it relates to FS9/FSP). It's unfortunate we're working on tight forum space here. Maybe someday we'll have it!
I had someone on the forum (in a post yesterday or early today I believe) tell me that they're sick of me referencing real world issues, and
that I should just get around to fixing "virtual" problems (they worded it differently... don't remember where the post is, but that was the just
of it). Is anyone else sick of this? I try to answer problems with FS9 and FSP just as much, if not more than I make real world
references. If there's a problem with my posts, someone, please speak up! I'll just climb back into my shell now
Re: A question to Brad... - silo - 25-08-2005
I don't see why anybody should be tired of learning how things work in real life. We wouldn't be using FS9 today if the programmers didn't
try to understand how thing work in real life first! The two worlds are so tightly connected! Except for the occasional so called "blue screen
of death" and the like
(unless you are flying an A340 chill everybody...just joking)I don't know what was the contest of the post you are referencing to but IMHO if somebody doesn't like real world answers then just don't
read them. It sounds like he really made a rude comment that had no reason to be there, if you ask me.
Re: A question to Brad... - SWAFO - 25-08-2005
I'm looking for the post, but don't remember where it is... if someone stumbles across it, please post a link.
Re: A question to Brad... - jboweruk - 25-08-2005
Brad, I for one am always grateful for any help that comes, especially from someone with the amount of experience you have. As Silo
said, the two worlds are by their very nature intertwined, as so much that applies to real life aviation applies in FS9. Okay we have more
fun since we don't have to learn all the rules and regs regarding A/C maintainance etc. And no doubt our checks taking only 10 minutes
are riduculously simplified. But I just pretend that my CP does most of the work and I get on with flying the plane.
A word for whoever it was that posted that to Brad, if you don't like it, don't read it, but don't spoil it for the rest of us.
Re: A question to Brad... - snakeboy - 25-08-2005
I noticed FScrew mentioned, is that better than Flight deck companion which I use at the moment?.