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+--- Thread: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? (/showthread.php?tid=11882)
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Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - Felix - 18-07-2005
Hey guys,
I post it here, because I think, it's no issue with FSPassengers, although it happened to me first with this nice add-on.
Well, what happened? I just bought a nice big Cessna 208b Grand Caravan (I had to pay all my money!) and wanted to fly instantly a small trip with my
new aircraft. So while taking off I wanted to rotate at ~80 kts (Flaps 10°), but that damn thing didn't want to come up! Then at approx. 110 kts I
lifted off but suddenly the nose was bouncing up and down and I couldn't take that under control until I switched on the Autopilot.
A similar thing happened, when I was landing: after I touched down, the nose-wheel was hopping up and down until I was below 30 kts.
First I thought that it was the fault auf the FSPassenger-Payloadmodel but after trying it without FSP I found out, that this happens always with this
damn thing. And I noticed also that the weight-stations of the C208B in FS are completely in front of the CG so that you can't get the CG in the
middle (with the FS-Payloader, not in FSP) - it's kind of strange to me.
Has anybody here no problems in flying the C208B? I need some tips please, I don't want to sell that thing ;-)
Greetings
Felix
Re: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - jboweruk - 18-07-2005
Which 208B is this? Are you talking about the default Caravan or the Feelthere model? I've never come across it on either but anybody
here that can help will need to know which.
Re: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - Felix - 18-07-2005
Oh yeah, of course, i forgot ;-)
It's the default 208B.
Greetings
Felix
Re: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - jboweruk - 18-07-2005
Where does it happen? Is it anywhere in particular? If so do you have scenery installed? Did FSP modify the .cfg file in any way?
I'll try the plane tonight to see what happens. Should be able to find a bit of time before I start flying especially if it's to help out a fellow
simpilot.
Re: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - Felix - 18-07-2005
Thank you very much for your time :-)
Well, it's kind of weird: It happens anywhere (well... at least I tested my home airport EDHL (add-on scenery) and KSEA (stock)) and FSP did not
modify the .cfg, as far as I know.
I discovered after a little playing around, that the trim-setting plays a role in this problem. If I trim nose-up then the aircraft rotates smoothly
at ~80kts with 20° Flaps but then it suddenly turns the nose upwards like a space shuttle (and I'm doing nothing) and - of course - stalls. But when I
trim nose-down, then it's hard to get the cessna in the air but when it finally rotates it goes only up and down and up and ....
Very weird... it seems to me, that there is a trim-value that has to be set, but this trim-value is way another one than you can see on the panel,
wich is marked as T.O. (phew... this was a hard sentence to me - I hope, you understand, what I mean ;-) ).
So, in summary I think that the problem has something to do with CG and trim. I hope, you'll find something good out while doing your test flights and
thanks again :-)
Greetings
Felix
Re: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - jboweruk - 18-07-2005
NP mate. I'm flying one of my own pilots right now; as soon as I get her down and safe and unloaded I'll take a look and see if it
happpens to me. I had it once with the default using a repaint in FedEx colours after installing MyTraffic. Since then MT has been updated
and I don't think I have the FedEx repaint it supplied anymore. Thing is I was also using ACLoader to load my planes. So maybe it's
something to do with them being loaded another way. If so the best bet maybe the Feelthere Caravan.
Re: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - jboweruk - 18-07-2005
Okay Felix, yes, I had the same thing, it bounced the front a couple of times on takeoff, but otherwise took off okay. On Landing it bounced
that front wheel like a nutter, so I immediately retracted the flaps and came off the brakes, this settled it down quickly. No idea what
caused it though. Will try the same route tomorrow using the Feelthere Caravan Deluxe! and report back here.
Need to find time to get a couple of my pilots across to Oshkosh too in time for the airshow.
Re: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - jboweruk - 18-07-2005
Okay was just looking at the load.ini file for the 'Van and I think I see the problem. Did you notice where the CofG pointer was after you
loaded up? I forgot to note where it settled, but a lot of those load points look too far back to me, and that could be the route cause. I'm
working on an update for the loadout .ini file, I'll play around with it over the next couple of nights and if I get it working right I'll upload it.
Dan, I know you put a lot of hard work into this, but the caravan in FS doesn't respond well to external loaders, hence I'll see if I can create
a loadout that puts more weight near the front. It should stop the bounce effect we are getting.
anyone else seen this on the 'Van? Plus does anyone have the Feelthere version and if so do you have the same problem?
Re: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - Felix - 19-07-2005
Wow, cool, thank you very much for your help! I was also thinking of the Payload-File, the CG-Arrow was always right of the center, I tried to
compensate that with the "Rear Cargo" but maybe that is one of the problems: eventually most of the stations are too far from the center and this
causes the instability? I don't know exactly how this all with balancing etc. works, but this would explain it for me.
Anyway, I just made another flight with the C208B (since it is currently my only big aircraft, I can't stand the Baron ;-) ) and it worked ok caise I
used some... irregular procedures, if you know what I mean. I rotated very late (100-110kts with 20° Flaps) and soon after I took off I switched the
autopilot on - not the best way, but it works, hand-flying the C208B is still impossible. Well, after FS-ATC forgot to vector me to the ILS-localizer
I had enough from FS2004 and hit ALT+F4 - this damn thing never works like I want to ;-)
Greetings & thanks again
Felix
Re: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - jboweruk - 19-07-2005
As I said, I'll try the Feelthere version tonight when I get home and see if it has the same problem. It may not since it is by default a much
nicer model.
Re: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - jboweruk - 19-07-2005
Okay. Sorry guys; had some other bits to do tonight; not least try out MAAM DC3 and Roads & Rivers of Europe so have run out of time
now to try the Feelthere Caravan. If anyone else gets a chance maybe they can check it for the bouncy stuff otherwise I'll make it my first
job tomorrow night. We need to get this one sorted out.
Re: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - jboweruk - 20-07-2005
Okay, update, I did manage to try it briefly with the Feelthere, it too has problems with the nose, so it is something to do with the centre of
balance issue. Felix did you manage to notice? I forgot to check CofG last night when I flew the Feelthere bird, to be honest I was a tad
tired.
Re: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - Felix - 20-07-2005
Hey John,
the CG arrow was always one or two dashes to the right. I'll play a little bit with the CG on my next flights, maybe I'll find a good setup.
By the way I experienced yesterday another weird problem with the 'van: I was cruising at 11'000 ft till I got into pretty heavy turbulences, then the
autopilot couldn't hold the 'van and the nose went up and down getting more and more up and down until I disconnected the AP, but I couldn't take that
under control again and hit Alt-F4. I couldn't reproduce this weird behaviour until now, I hope it was an "only-once", but I think, the balancing
again played a role within this.
Okay, I'll now try systematically different weights and balancings until I get a flyable Caravan, I'll give report.
Greetings
Felix
Re: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - Felix - 20-07-2005
Okay, John, I think, I got it.
Just made a few test-take-offs with the Caravan with different payloads and CG-setups and these are the results:
Payload: 0 kg
CG-Pos: slightly left (approx. 2 dashes)
Behaviour with T.O.-Trim: Looping (I did nothing!)
Bahaviour with full down Trim: nervous, unflyable
Payload: 830 kg (half full)
CG-Pos: center
Bahaviour with T.O.-Trim: space-shuttle
Bahaviour with full down Trim: at first good, then space-shuttle
Payload: 680 kg (half full)
CG-Pos: right (approx. 4 dashes)
Bahaviour with T.O.-Trim: very good, smooth
Bahaviour with full down Trim: nose down, crash into ground
Payload: 1170 kg (full)
CG-Pos: as above
Bahaviour with T.O.-Trim: very good, smooth
Well, I think, the CG-Position to the right (4 dashes) works very good! Maybe somebody can play with the Payload-model so that center position is correct?
Greetings,
Felix
Re: Cessna 208b Grand Caravan - unflyable? - jboweruk - 20-07-2005
Good, we're getting there. I can't fly tonight; done my foot a mischief and need it for rudder peds, so I'll try playing with a couple of bits one
of which will be the payload model.